UnHacked - Cybersecurity Made Simple for Small Businesses

Justin Shelley (00:05)
Welcome everybody to episode 61 of unhacked we are cybersecurity made simple for the small business owner. I'm Justin Shelley, CEO of Phoenix IT advisors and my passion is helping businesses use technology to grow, ⁓ develop their market, make lots of money, and then protect that money from the hackers, the government fines and penalties and the lawyers that always seem to come sniffing around once we've built something amazing. I'm here as always with my regular

Faithful co-host, Mario Zacchi. Mario, take a minute to say hi and introduce yourself.

Mario Zaki (00:39)
How are you guys? Mario Zaki, CEO of Mastic IT, located in beautiful New Jersey. We're about 15 minutes outside of Manhattan, which I was there yesterday for my anniversary. ⁓ It was pretty fun. ⁓ We have been in business for 21 years and we specialize in working with small to medium sized businesses and keeping business owners ⁓ safe and give them the ability to sleep better at night.

Bhuvan Sharma (00:52)
Congratulations.

Mario Zaki (01:08)
their companies are safe.

Justin Shelley (01:10)
Congrats on the anniversary. didn't know this. How many years?

Mario Zaki (01:11)
Thank you, thank you.

Pratima Sharma (01:12)
Yes, congratulations.

Mario Zaki (01:14)
14 years. Yeah, that's why I couldn't really come along to Nashville this weekend. Exactly.

Justin Shelley (01:16)
Alright, well done, well done.

Pratima Sharma (01:17)
Nice.

Bhuvan Sharma (01:17)
That's what I think.

Justin Shelley (01:22)
understandable. Yes, that would be that would be the end of your 14 years. So good.

Good call there. And guys also were super excited to introduce introduce today's guest. We're talking with the leadership team from seven seas holdings. This is a group dedicated to helping their members invest in real estate securely and successfully. ⁓ It's not just about investments, though. They're building a trusted ecosystem where investors feel safe and informed. There's a lot of education that has to go into this. So

Pratima Bhuvan, thank you so much for being here. Take a second to introduce yourselves and say hi.

Pratima Sharma (01:55)
Absolutely. ⁓ Hi everyone and thank you Justin and Mario. Congratulations again on your 14th anniversary. You just reversed that number. Call it 41 and that's where me and Bhuvan sit today. So ⁓ once again you know as

Mario Zaki (02:04)
Thank you.

⁓ God bless. Nice.

Justin Shelley (02:11)
nice.

Pratima Sharma (02:17)
Just inside, are Pratima and Bhuvan Sharma, and I'll give quick information about both of us. As managing members of Seven Seas Holdings, we bring a robust foundation to real estate. My background is in telecommunication, R &D, and operating systems, while Bhuvan's expertise lies in the IT compliance and governance.

Together, we offer over 12 years of focused experience in the multifamily real estate sector, during which we have successfully transacted over 10,000 units. ⁓ We have a proven track record of achieving significant investor returns, including 200 % on several deals. ⁓ Our investment opportunities are currently supported.

by a network of hundreds of participating members.

Justin Shelley (03:17)
That's good stuff. Move on. We'll punt it to you. Say hi and make yourself quick introduction.

Bhuvan Sharma (03:21)
Yep.

Well, again, thank you very much, Justin and Mario, and Mario again, congratulations on your 14th anniversary. When we had 14, we thought it was a great achievement. When we went to 41, I think it's actually a achievement. I think it's a great, you'll be there. But anyway, guys, just like Pratman mentioned that I'm also from the IT background. I started out as a mainframe programmer.

Mario Zaki (03:29)
Thank you very much.

Pratima Sharma (03:37)
you

Mario Zaki (03:37)
Nice.

Bhuvan Sharma (03:50)
I'm sure you all know that, but mainstream voice reading, when we had no internet connection and everything was secure because nobody was able to get in your system. Well, nowadays, anyone can get into a system where it's wirelessly through the internet or through the phone lines, through the utility side or anywhere, by the way. So I started out then moved to SAP consulting and then went into the IP compliance.

My last 1820 years, casual ID compliance. Yeah. Primarily audit side. So my job was to make sure that our company systems are protected from occurs. Spammers so. The lot of hands on stuff, which I completely forgot. I used to have all the books hacker books and all those things on my desk. We should run. It was scans that nobody wants to run it.

But anyway, we had a good time, but then after, you we decide to move on to do something different, completely different than from IT side is getting into real estate. So that is where we are. You know, our what we like to do is, you know, we want to make sure our investors are safe, protected, and they have, you know, better life than what we are trying to do. Just wait for the

No mailbox money. ⁓

Justin Shelley (05:21)
Well, it's a perfect fit,

right? Because what I said I love to do is help people make money and then protect that money. And that's exactly what we're doing here today. Right? Isn't that fair? Same, same thing. different, maybe different technologies, but kind of not. There's a lot of overlap in what we do here behind the scenes, what you guys do, ⁓ for your members and, but, but the end goal is the same. So, ⁓ I really do appreciate you guys being here today. And here's why this is something the world of cybersecurity.

Bhuvan Sharma (05:29)
Yes, that is fair.

Pratima Sharma (05:30)
That's true.

Bhuvan Sharma (05:37)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (05:51)
It's, it's just one of those things that generally speaking, nobody wants to talk about. I don't have a lot of clients or prospects when I, when I go to them and say, Hey, let's talk about cyber security that they get all excited and say, yeah, let's do it. And no, not only that, but let's jump on a podcast. We want to talk about this a lot. Mario, what's your experience with that? Do you have a lot of people just super excited to talk about this? ⁓

Mario Zaki (06:11)
Zip zero there

if anything they they they cringe they they feel like that that's it's a sensitive subject that they you know, they feel like if they don't talk about it, it will never happen or That it's you know that they'll jinx it if they do talk about it

Justin Shelley (06:30)
But here's the truth, no matter what business you're in, in some way, or form, we are stewards of our clients information, right? If, if we aren't careful with the information they give us, then we in turn can cause all kinds of damage to them. So not only do we try to build up our own portfolios, our own businesses and protect that we're actually in, in charge of and responsible for those that we do business with. So, ⁓

There again, not a lot of people step up and take ownership of this. So that is why I was just absolutely thrilled to have you guys on. Let's talk about the, and this is a pop quiz for Mario. Let's just see if he passes the quiz. Mario, what's the number one way that people get ⁓ breached that lose money in this world?

Mario Zaki (07:14)
⁓ email phishing.

Justin Shelley (07:17)
Okay. All right. So that's what we're going to talk about, right? And it's, this is not a, ⁓ you passed with flying colors. What a shocker. ⁓ so it's

Bhuvan Sharma (07:20)
You

Mario Zaki (07:20)
Did I pass?

Pratima Sharma (07:22)
Ha ha ha.

Justin Shelley (07:28)
This is something that's not unique to your business, but it is something that's super important in your line of work, right? Because in the end, cyber criminals are after exactly one thing. They're not after my social security number. They're not after my bank account number. They're not after my personal information. They're after my money. So this is the world you live in. That's the end goal. Tell me a little bit about what goes on in the world of investment that makes this so important.

Pratima Sharma (07:57)
Justin, you're so right about the phishing and the spam activities which are in the market these days, especially in other world of investment. It can be devastating. And that's why we want to be very open about it with our members. We are committed to ensuring that all of our members

are well informed about the risks of these fraudulent emails and spoofing attempts. ⁓ These type of activities, ⁓ unfortunately, are ⁓ prevalent in particularly in the context of fund collections. And we are talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars, sometimes million dollars by each member. ⁓ So be always...

are on the lookout and we teach our members from day one that you you need to take several actions but ⁓ top three that you know we go through with them are be on your guard always watch out for these fraudulent email addresses very very carefully

These spam email usually have an extra character included inside the email hidden inside the email ID. For example, they will add a small ⁓ case or lowercase i or a lowercase l, which is very hard to detect. ⁓ Secondly, we always guide them to not reply to any email if you notice it sounds fragile.

Bhuvan Sharma (09:30)
you

Pratima Sharma (09:42)
⁓ Verbiage-wise or email address looks fragile. Do not click especially on any links or hyperlinks. ⁓ number three big action that they need to take is call us immediately when they see such an email. And after calling us, we guide them to take another three steps. They need to... ⁓

Bhuvan Sharma (09:43)
you

you

Pratima Sharma (10:10)
collect the original messages block header that we can then send to your team and to other teams, ⁓ IT teams to debug and see if they can catch something in a stop. ⁓ Then we ask them to go and report it as a spam so that the same spammer ⁓

or the phishing email is not able to come through their system again. Another thing is that ⁓ we ⁓ have a message at the end of each of our emails to continue to remind our members ⁓ that never ever trust unintended property information and wiring instructions via email. Always call us.

always reach out to us. So those are just some of the actions or you know details that we pass on to our members to keep them safe.

Justin Shelley (11:18)
I want to talk about, said always be on guard, always be watching. ⁓ I don't remember your exact wording for that, but, ⁓ you know, Mario and I live in this space and I guess you guys do too. ⁓ but Mario, what, what do you see when, people are getting scammed, when they actually fall victim to a fraudulent email other than the URL. So we've, we've talked about that. They use a different character to kind of trick us into thinking. ⁓ but what do you see in the actual content Mario that would, that people should be watching out for.

Mario Zaki (11:48)
So usually it's something like, I've changed, you we've changed bank information, we've changed. I mean, you see it a lot also with like fake employee information. You know, I changed my direct deposit, please direct all my paychecks to this new bank account. It really is something like, know, all of a something was changed. And also,

The other thing that we see a lot is when there's a sense of urgency, like you need to do this ⁓ today. Make sure this is done as soon as possible. You know, it's when they're trying to make you panic or nervous because then you don't have time to really think about it. They're prying on those people that don't have time to really consider like, is this true? Should I call them? Let me, you know, send them a text message, you know, something like that.

Justin Shelley (12:17)
Right, ⁓

Mario Zaki (12:44)
they want this done as soon as possible. So it's usually those two. If you see a change, a sudden change that wasn't expected or a sense of urgency that is like, need this done as soon as possible.

Justin Shelley (12:57)
Yep, I agree.

Bhuvan Sharma (12:58)
Can

I add this what Maria was saying, you being an IT person, I spent quite a bit of time in, I can say one of the things that we would call that agencies one thing and somebody who is ⁓ coming up and say, I don't have a phone number. I can only work email or chat. And so it has happened to us, you know, we, you know, we were trying to sell the car.

Justin Shelley (13:21)
Okay

Bhuvan Sharma (13:28)
But many, years ago, and the guy said, I can buy that car in, you know, 20 % more of what I listed. It was on Facebook. And I said, God, I sold it. It's like a 12 o'clock at this person is keep chatting me. And I said, wait a minute. Why this person is chatting with I can pick up the card from here. I said, where are you? Let me come back to you. No, I travel all the time, so I'm not available.

So that gave me a sense as a, ⁓ I know who you are. I just said, ⁓ thank you very much. Let me figure this out. Will you have less to report that to you with authorities dropped. having no phone and anytime you see the phone number that is kind of off code, you don't pick up because that is where you're asking for trouble for yourself.

Justin Shelley (14:10)
Yeah.

Right.

Absolutely. All right. So let's we've talked about the ⁓ the bad URLs. That's that's probably one of the most common one. We've got the sense of urgency. And I would just add to that. They play on emotions. Urgency is one of them, but they're going to touch on an emotion of some sort. If an email is overly emotional, you know, act now. This opportunity is going to be, you know, and I imagine if I had to guess and your industry

Bhuvan Sharma (14:30)
Thanks.

Justin Shelley (14:53)
somebody, let's say I'm trying to spoof or scam your members, I would send an email out and say, Hey guys, fantastic opportunity just came up today is Friday. It's three o'clock in the afternoon and it closes by ⁓ six o'clock tonight. We have to get the money right now. Right. Isn't that kind of the sense that you, that these emails will take when they, when they try to spoof or scam in the world of investing.

Pratima Sharma (15:17)
Yeah, they will always come up with that sense of urgency that if you don't participate right now, this deal is going and I need I'll get you to fill the legal documents later on, but I need you to fund right now. Here's the funding instruction right there in the email. So what what we do is we have created a process and all of our members are aware of our process that we tell them day one.

Bhuvan Sharma (15:18)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (15:27)
Right.

Bhuvan Sharma (15:34)
you

Pratima Sharma (15:46)
that when we find a real estate deal, we'll hold a webinar for any new investment first. You will get to hear, us on Zoom or in person, depending on ⁓ the timeframe and where we are having that deal. And then after that, they will fill out the legal forms. We approve those legal forms and only

And only after that, we will ask you to fund. And the funding instructions are never going to be given to you via email. They will only be available on the secure portal for you to download. So always be aware that wiring instructions and details are only communicated securely. Never buy other email. ⁓

Another ⁓ safeguard that we put around that is once you have taken the wiring instructions from the portal, before you go to bank or when you're sitting in the bank, you are supposed to call this specific number that belongs to us. And you will talk to us personally at that point before you hit send. And at that point we check with the person, is this account number?

Is this the routing number? Because sometimes what these guys do, they send that fraudulent wiring instruction with their bank details, right? So we have made this a point, made this safeguard so that we can protect our members' data and our members' funds and give them continuous communication regarding that.

Mario Zaki (17:44)
See, this is amazing. It's great that you're putting in the work and doing this the correct way. Unfortunately, and Justin, correct me if I'm wrong, this is the minority of people. Not too many are actually putting in these safeguards and following it with not only just one thing, but another thing and another thing after that because...

Justin Shelley (18:01)
Absolutely.

Mario Zaki (18:12)
This is what we unfortunately have to go through right now is that you have to, you know, one factor authentication, two factor authentication, three factor authentication, you know, and a lot of people don't go through that, that effort, you know, and one thing or there's something that we also have seen lately a lot is you can have a lot of this stuff in place on your side and, know, but you can be dealing with either a

customer or vendor or something like that that aren't going through all that stuff, they get breached. And even though you're protected, they're still communicating with you through their real email, their real ⁓ ID. And then they're the ones that don't even know that they got breached, but they're trying to, or the hacker is using them to reach other people.

You know, so that's where you would see, you know, my ACH, my bank account changed, you know, send it and you've confirmed, yes, this is the right email, you know, stuff like that. But, you know, kudos to you guys for putting these, the proper, you know, precautions in place and following them. That's amazing.

Justin Shelley (19:28)
I'm going to brag on them for a minute, Mario. I'm glad you brought that up. So, and this is the bottom line. This is what I actually, I hate to talk about. hate to admit it, but it is the cold hard reality. No matter what we do to protect ourselves and to protect our finances and to protect our businesses, there's always a chance that something bad is going to happen. There's always a chance that we're going to lose money. And, ⁓ where, where you guys, not only do you have these systems in place, you have these protections in place. Let's say it all goes sideways through no fault of your own.

⁓ You guys have a story that I want you to tell about what you do above and beyond for your members. And I'm going to give this one to you, Bhuvan.

Bhuvan Sharma (20:04)
Yeah,

yeah, I can tell you, you know, just like what Marcelo said, we are very protective for our investors and we want to make sure that they're doing the right thing. So putting all those three, you know, three tier, you know, authentication sometime because we have members that have been here for 12 years, they get very comfortable. The email coming from Bhuvan and Parthima is right. So in this case,

somebody spoofed our email, sent the warning instruction telling me we need the money by tomorrow. So guess what? This person sent the money and then called me next day, hey Bhuvan, did you receive my money? Now I'm talking about six figures money. It's not a small amount. And I say, which money you're talking about? Oh, I sent you

This morning you should have had it. said, tell me where did you sent? When he sent me the wire instruction, I was in the car. I was going to somewhere else. I said, you got to be kidding me. We had the, you know, instruction. We made the protocol. Guess what? You made a big boo boo. I'll call you back. I turned around, went to my bank, sat down with the manager. I said, this is exactly what happening.

He said, I'm busy. said, you're not busy. This is critical. I sat down with the manager of the We called every single fraud department in the bank. We got that wire to start. And we were able to get 100 % of the money back. It took them long, but it was, can tell you it was a Friday afternoon, 2.30 PM.

Most of the banks are almost closed. The wire closes at three o'clock. If they had pushed, they pushed the wire, but they were able to stop because the fraud was able to get into an intravenous stuff. So those things can happen, but we are glad that we were able to get the money back. And this person did not allow. So Maria, just like I said, no matter what you do, there's always someone who is going to make a silly mistake and then.

then always come to, you did not give me instruction. In this case, we followed all the procedure, but apparently this person did not follow. But I can tell you under the story, there's another person who literally lost the money because he told us we're late. Right, you don't have to. No. Yeah.

Justin Shelley (22:43)
Right. You don't have a lot of time. Friday afternoon. It seems like that's always the case. But you didn't just yeah.

Mario Zaki (22:46)
Yeah. And they do it on purpose. They do it on purpose because

they know there's not going to be much happening on Saturday, nothing happening on Sunday. You know, it's on purpose.

Justin Shelley (22:51)
Yeah.

Bhuvan Sharma (22:56)
Yeah. So this

was a great, this was a. ⁓

Justin Shelley (22:59)
And this wasn't, it wasn't your money. It wasn't

your fault. was nothing that you did wrong. And yet you took your time immediately to go sit down with the bank on behalf of your member who had been scammed again, through no fault of your own. And I'll tell you what, this is not something I see very often. In fact, ⁓ several years ago in prepping for a different episode of our podcast, I called my bank up and I just gave them some scenarios of, of fraud and asked them, you know, what

what could be done. And ⁓ in the end, they were not helpful at all. They couldn't give me any good information. ⁓ I was so disappointed and disgusted with what resources were available from the bank in on my behalf, and I was an actual customer of them. ⁓ So this is just something you don't see very often. A vendor, a supplier, or you know, whatever a business owner who will turn their car around, not just make a phone call, not just give instructions of what to do.

Bhuvan Sharma (23:34)
you

Justin Shelley (23:58)
but actually go turn around and spend their Friday afternoon on behalf of a client. just, I don't think I've ever seen it.

Bhuvan Sharma (24:04)
Yeah, so what?

Pratima Sharma (24:05)
But.

Bhuvan Sharma (24:06)
Now one other thing we did just in is not only that I did that. The phone number, the account number they had, it was still a Dallas account. Dallas business address. We were somewhere else, so and he was a different bank and I called the bank and told them I need to talk to a fraud department. They didn't want to talk to me. I explained them who am I? So I was able to talk to the person unity close this bank account now.

You cannot take any money in there. This is a fraudulent account. He didn't do it, but I ended up talking to the top person on the IT department and I forced them to close the account. So they will not be able to, and no one can send the money into that account, fraudulent account.

Justin Shelley (24:51)
Mario in your experience with wire fraud, how many times do do you get to turn that around and get your money back?

Bhuvan Sharma (24:57)
Ha!

Mario Zaki (24:58)
It's It's very rare. Believe it or not, actually is now less, a lot harder to do that than it was before because what was happening was these fraudulent accounts were actually overseas. Banks started getting like, okay, we're going to...

put in a precaution that if anything going overseas, we're gonna flag it. So now these guys are opening up local, know, ⁓ accounts so that it doesn't flag. And then once they get something, ⁓ you know, whatever, one or two payments, then they close the account. ⁓ They're always pulling the money right away. So it's a lot harder now. ⁓

Bhuvan Sharma (25:38)
Yes.

Yes.

Mario Zaki (25:54)
I forgot which bank it is. Is it maybe Chase or something? For a while they were allowing people to open up bank accounts online without actually going into a branch and showing ID or doing any of that stuff, you know, so it was much easier. I don't even know if that's still the case or not, but I know it was for a while.

Bhuvan Sharma (26:15)
I think it was a smaller bank. was a smaller bank. ⁓ in this case, they... Go ahead. What I'm going to say is that a smaller bank, and when I was talking to my bank, because we have a large account in there, what they told me is they were able to see the transaction. Mario, just like you're saying, when they open an account in a local bank,

Pratima Sharma (26:20)
not only go ahead.

Bhuvan Sharma (26:44)
they transfer like $300, $400 to the different denominations so the fraud department cannot catch your IT because you have written a specific script to catch this. So these guys, these perpetrators are smart, that they will pull money not on the same amount, it's a different amount, on a different interval. So it's very hard to track that that's really fraudulent transaction or is it real transaction.

Pratima Sharma (27:14)
Yeah, and not only that some of these banks allow to open online, but some of these folks opening these online from another country and you can see it's coming from Africa or you can see it's coming from India or somewhere from outside and you know this is fraudulent.

but still they will not listen to us sometimes that guys you need to close this account freeze this account well who are you we are from 7c's okay i mean for for them we are also somebody from outside why should they listen to us but we are giving you some fact at least you know look into it

Justin Shelley (27:52)
Right ⁓

Pratima Sharma (28:00)
But anyways, ⁓ Justin, you mentioned you don't see other people's, other syndicators or other ⁓ companies doing this, but we feel that our members deserve it. And the reason is they trust us and they are like a big family to us. So we owe it to them. Even a dollar lost is lost, funds.

that we need to look after.

Mario Zaki (28:31)
And the one thing I am going to call out my former bank, was TD Bank. I was with TD Bank. was when I first started making money, like as a, you know, in the college, like, you know, I opened up a bank account. had had it with TD for like 30 years. And, you know, back when it was commerce bank and stuff like that. But one thing that really pissed me off about them and

Bhuvan Sharma (28:38)
Thank

Mario Zaki (29:01)
recently was they did not have the proper precautions in place for ACH payments and stuff like that. So if somebody pulled money out of my bank account, they didn't have anything that lets me review it. They didn't have anything that gives me a warning or anything like that. And I switched to another bank and now anything that's coming out of my bank account, even if it's payroll, ⁓

weekly or biweekly payroll, I have to go in there and approve it. If I'm paying any vendors, I have to go in there and approve it. And I still get a notification, a text message and an email saying, and I have the threshold very low, anything over $5, they let me know that I will get an email, I'll get a text message saying, just to let you know this just went through.

Bhuvan Sharma (29:36)
Yes.

Mario Zaki (30:00)
I'm surprised that ⁓ a bank like TD Bank doesn't have this in place.

Justin Shelley (30:08)
I'm surprised to that's I in fact I have I have a bank account that it's not even an option. If I want to wire money, it won't let me do it without sending a two factor authentication of some sort. So it does matter who you do business with. And that's, you know, not everybody is the same. Not every banks the same not every commercial real estate investment companies the same. I again, I don't see a lot of businesses who will sit at their bank for hours or however long it was on a Friday afternoon.

Bhuvan Sharma (30:11)
That's it.

Same here.

Mario Zaki (30:23)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (30:36)
because they care about their, their clients, their members or their family, as you call it. And I love that. So, ⁓ I think, and, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think we've gotten over the key points today. ⁓ if we've missed anything, this is the time jump in. Did we, did we miss anything that you want to talk about, ⁓ either move on or prodding math.

Pratima Sharma (30:57)
Not really, I just want to give ⁓ a message to the members that be on your guard always. Not just the members, but anybody out there. Be always on your guard, educate yourself, and don't take any action if somebody is asking you to take an immediate action asking you to share your personal information.

Bhuvan Sharma (31:24)
Yeah, I think that that's the key takeaway. You know, be vigilant about it. Who is sending messages? It's okay to call. with this, is IT and Internet and text messaging thing. People don't like to call. They say, someone is really let me send a text. And for us is, you know, in our phone, we have every investors phone when they call, they talk to us. So.

The treatment that we provide is not that ⁓ for just for a reason, but we want to make sure that our investors feel that they've been treated right. They've been safe, they're protected, and they are comfortable with talking to us and doing business with us.

Justin Shelley (32:17)
Okay, Mario, do you have any final thoughts, key takeaways?

Mario Zaki (32:20)
Yeah, I, you know, this was very good, very informative. One thing I do want to highlight is just like we discussed, if something seems to be good to be true, if somebody's trying to pay you 20%, you know, more than what you're asking for, you know, think twice about it. You know, if you get an email or something from somebody, ⁓ and it doesn't, and it seems suspicious, do that.

you know, second factor authentication or that third factor authentication. You know, you work hard for your money, you know, work a little harder to keep it, you know, and, you know, make sure that you confirm everything, you know, either in person, on the phone, you know, on zoom. ⁓ Don't just assume, you know, nothing is changed, you know, always assume something could go wrong.

And ⁓ if you live that way and go through, even though you'll drive yourself crazy and pull your hair out like the three gentlemen ⁓ in this group, ⁓ you know, but ⁓ you'll be able to sleep better.

Justin Shelley (33:26)
You

Bhuvan Sharma (33:30)
Hahaha

Pratima Sharma (33:32)
Thank you.

Justin Shelley (33:38)
So on that note, I will say that the message that I just keep pushing out there and evangelizing is that, you know, with all the technology, with all the processes, all the systems, we do all this stuff. And, but like I said earlier, eventually with enough effort of the bad guys, they will find a way to get through to us. So the, best defense that I believe we have is just to

constantly be talking about this. Keep this dialogue open. It's a shameless self promotion for the podcast. Listen to every week. We drop a new episode sometimes to, ⁓ sometimes it's scary. Sometimes it's complicated. Sometimes it's technical, but, the takeaway is always this. It's one thing it's keep this in your mind all the time. Remember all the time somebody is out there trying to take your money from you. They don't care about your, your personal information. They just are trying to get to your money. That's the bottom line. And

So I'm kind of happy and excited to announce that through a partnership that we've worked out with seven seas, any of their members are actually going to, they've, ⁓ they've helped fund a cyber security awareness program, that we're, teaming up with them on. So you, reach out to seven seas at seven seas, H L D.com. ⁓ if you're already a member, you know how to get ahold of them. If not go to unhacked.live or, actually you can just look on your show notes.

Bhuvan Sharma (34:58)
you

Justin Shelley (35:01)
on your phone, on Spotify or Apple podcasts or whatever. And we'll have some links in there where you can contact us. but if you reach out and you mentioned this, this offer will actually set you up with our cybersecurity awareness training program, absolutely free of charge. thank you. ⁓ Prima and Bhuvan both of you for your very proactive efforts in protecting the community. ⁓ it's, it's a rare thing and I really do sincerely appreciate it. So thank you both for being here and sharing this message.

Mario Zaki (35:26)
Yes, thank you.

Bhuvan Sharma (35:29)
Well, thank you very much.

Pratima Sharma (35:29)
Our pleasure and thank you, Justin and Mario.

Mario Zaki (35:33)
Thank you.

Justin Shelley (35:33)
All right, guys, with that, we're going to go ahead and sign off. like I said, we've got the website unhacked out live. If you want more information, we'll put links, ⁓ everywhere we can to the seven C's company and, ⁓ just stay safe out there guys. Thanks for being here. We'll talk to you next week.

Bhuvan Sharma (35:50)
Thank you, bye bye.