UnHacked - Cybersecurity Made Simple for Small Businesses

Justin Shelley (00:03)
I mean it's supposed to the music's supposed to start. I don't know what to tell you guys. There we go.

Mario Zaki (00:06)
Ha ha ha

I'm like raising the roof to no music.

Justin Shelley (00:18)
Everybody to episode what the hell was that? I don't know. I try to like I've got all this energy, like let's get started. And then I can't even get the intro music to play. Welcome everybody to episode 103 or whatever the hell today is. It doesn't matter because the world is going to end. That's the latest. so this is our final episode. This is our goodbye.

Bryan Lachapelle (00:36)
Okay.

Justin Shelley (00:40)
wait, actually, I think we have a few years. I don't know.

Joshua Holloway (00:43)
So

episode one one thousand and three will be our

Mario Zaki (00:46)
Yeah.

Joshua Holloway (00:47)
our last episode.

Justin Shelley (00:47)
if if if

if we have you think we have nine hundred episodes left before the world ends?

Joshua Holloway (00:53)
Yeah, maybe. Yeah,

Mario Zaki (00:55)
No, way before.

Joshua Holloway (00:55)
possibly.

Bryan Lachapelle (00:56)
Maybe

Justin Shelley (00:57)
I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. But we're gonna record. We're gonna talk about all this shit, whether it's scary, whether it should be

Joshua Holloway (01:03)
Mm.

Justin Shelley (01:04)
scary, whether it's not scary, whether you've got your head in the sand. I don't know. I've got a lot of I don't know's today. Let's do some quick introductions. I'm Justin Shelley, CEO of Phoenix IT Advisors for now, until the world ends, then we won't be and I'm here with my good friends. let you guys all introduce yourselves. We're gonna keep it quick because everybody better know who the hell

we are. Mario, then Josh, then Brian. Go ahead and tell us who you are.

Mario Zaki (01:29)
Yeah, Mario Zacki, CEO of Mastec IT, located in New Jersey. We help small to medium sized businesses stay safe from all that shit that we're about to talk about today.

Justin Shelley (01:39)
Yeah, good luck with that, Josh.

Joshua Holloway (01:41)
And I'm Joshua Holloway, the CEO for 70i Technologies. yeah, MSP out of the Sacramento area with the office at Rito, and we're helping businesses stay protected and hopefully not kick off.

Mario Zaki (01:54)
Mm-hmm.

Justin Shelley (01:55)
Brian.

Joshua Holloway (01:55)
Yeah.

Bryan Lachapelle (01:57)
Brian Lashrow with B Four Networks, based out of beautiful Niagara, Ontario, Canada. And what what they said. I just I do I do it all better though. You know, I just yeah.

Justin Shelley (02:02)
It's like we're we

Joshua Holloway (02:05)
I I wanna I wanna start

taking I wanna start taking Brian's beautiful

Bryan Lachapelle (02:10)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (02:10)
I I think I think

Mario stole it the other day.

Joshua Holloway (02:12)
He did.

He did. He did.

Mario Zaki (02:13)
I did.

Bryan Lachapelle (02:14)
no, you leave my beautiful area alone. Yeah. We're just above Lake America, just in case you guys don't know.

Justin Shelley (02:15)
It because his beautiful area is this is sounding personal. Lake America, that's right. my god.

Mario Zaki (02:24)
That's right.

Joshua Holloway (02:24)
Hey d did that did that

kick in? Have we changed the name?

Mario Zaki (02:28)
According to Google

Maps it has, yeah.

Joshua Holloway (02:30)
shit. It's Yeah.

Bryan Lachapelle (02:30)
well not here, it still says Lake Ontario up here.

Justin Shelley (02:30)
Nuh-uh. Everywhere else

Mario Zaki (02:33)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (02:33)
in the world? Yeah. Good God. Guys, the world's a mess. It's

Bryan Lachapelle (02:38)
like

Justin Shelley (02:39)
a hot mess for so many reasons. We're gonna leave politics

Bryan Lachapelle (02:41)
Hot mess.

Justin Shelley (02:42)
out of it for now. like I don't even care. We could talk about politics too. That used to be off limits for me. Now I just don't even I don't have any opinions on That's what I'm saying. Like, who who cares?

Bryan Lachapelle (02:50)
Well, we're about to talk about the end of the world, so you know.

Mario Zaki (02:52)
You guys could have the damn lake.

Justin Shelley (02:58)
shit. Alright, so.

Real issues that I want to talk about. We have talked about patching so many times. Security vulnerabilities, we've talked about CVEs, we've talked about keeping track of them, how to apply them, how to test. So the new update that we just got recently is that Microsoft released a record number of patches, and it's only to blow away their previous record number of patches by almost a hundred percent increase, not quite. I think their previous record was like 570, and now we're like

Nine 900 and something. It's

Joshua Holloway (03:29)
Nine seventy four. Yeah.

Justin Shelley (03:31)
just like, all right, great. So episode after episode, we have talked about the importance of applying these patches. Guys, which of you raise your hand if you are able to digest 900 and whatever patches? Just from Microsoft, by the way, this is one vendor. It's not like they're the only vendor we have. are you able to properly test and just deploy these as fast as they come out? See, no.

Bryan Lachapelle (03:57)
It's just the apply all button. No, no kidding.

Justin Shelley (03:59)
Upp apply and pray. It it used to be plug and play. Now it's apply and

Mario Zaki (04:00)
Just hit next, next, next, next.

Joshua Holloway (04:02)
Yeah.

It's a prime.

Justin Shelley (04:03)
pray. Yeah.

Joshua Holloway (04:07)
Well, you know, and there and

there's a hor horror story to that one I could share with you where Microsoft's doing all these patches and you know they're updating DLLs that other softwares are using breaks the softwares. And then

Justin Shelley (04:18)
Yeah. Right. Right. That's mm-hmm.

Joshua Holloway (04:21)
now the now the software is also trying to fix what Microsoft is doing. So they're patching the DLL, even though it's Microsoft's DLL, back to the DLL that they need. So whichever one patches

Justin Shelley (04:30)
Hmm.

Joshua Holloway (04:32)
first, like

Justin Shelley (04:35)
Most recent, yeah.

Joshua Holloway (04:37)
Yeah, it's it's bad.

Mario Zaki (04:38)
Well a great example

of that was the I think it was probably about

Bryan Lachapelle (04:40)
Good times.

Mario Zaki (04:41)
a year and a half ago, maybe two years, the CrowdStrike,

Justin Shelley (04:44)
Yeah.

Joshua Holloway (04:45)
Oof.

Mario Zaki (04:45)
and the antivirus. That was due because of Microsoft, they they released something, it broke, and every computer that had CrowdStrike on it was just dead in the water.

Justin Shelley (04:56)
Wait a

minute. This was a Microsoft problem? Can it be I don't

Mario Zaki (05:00)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (05:00)
I d I don't remember that. Can somebody else confirm or

Joshua Holloway (05:03)
I thought that was a crowd strike

problem where he the the ke the person coded a fix and then bypassed all of his standard procedures and pushed it and

Justin Shelley (05:08)
And then walked away. Yeah, that's what I heard.

Joshua Holloway (05:12)
walked away.

Justin Shelley (05:13)
Mario, check your facts.

Mario Zaki (05:13)
I am ninety

per s I'm pretty sure it had all to do with Microsoft. Let's ask AI. Are you asking?

Justin Shelley (05:19)
Dare Grok.

Joshua Holloway (05:20)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (05:22)
No, you are. This is your claim. You have

Joshua Holloway (05:24)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (05:24)
to listen, this is a common misunderstanding. When you make a claim, you have to defend it. You can't put it on other people. Bri Mario, you made the claim. Like back yourself up, bud.

Joshua Holloway (05:33)
Yeah. Well, and I I think the other

Bryan Lachapelle (05:35)
Huh.

Joshua Holloway (05:36)
thing as Mario's looking this up, right? We're going from you know a hundred, two hundred, five hundred was five hundred and seven seventy four, Justin, you said was Microsoft's previous or it's

Justin Shelley (05:47)
I made that number up. It was five something and it's up to nine something. I don't know.

Joshua Holloway (05:50)
yeah. So we'll go in the five somethings, right? We know that humans are not doing this work any longer. It's AI.

Justin Shelley (05:57)
Correct.

Joshua Holloway (05:58)
Right. So, you know, now we're now we're starting to patch at the speed of AI.

So what are we going to do or what are they expecting us as the IT providers or the IT departments who we have to test, we have to we we have to deploy and not disrupt business, right? because remember for some reason patch patches are done on patch Tuesday, unless you alter that. and

Justin Shelley (06:25)
I'm gonna I'm gonna throw a theory out here. Josh, you I think it was you that wanted to talk about the the new software that I'm building. I'm replacing some of my vendor provided software. Listen, I l I love my vendors. Actually, I hate them all. that's a that's a rant that we don't want to go into right now. but but as

Joshua Holloway (06:42)
we're gonna t we're gonna touch it.

Justin Shelley (06:44)
I've got new software that my technicians are using right now,

Bryan Lachapelle (06:46)
Yeah, no.

Justin Shelley (06:47)
they're giving me feedback, they're pointing out bugs, I'm I'm pushing those patches. all of it's AI run.

And it's so not a direct comparison, but what I do think this turns into is it will be AI patching where it can take the environment that you have, pull it offline, run a test on it, make sure it works, put it back online and apply it. I think that's where we're headed with patching. I don't think that

Joshua Holloway (07:13)
It's actually a great idea.

Justin Shelley (07:14)
I don't think there's another option, honestly. I maybe there is, but being the smartest guy in the room, that's my crystal ball prediction.

Guys, I'm coming in hot today. It doesn't matter.

Mario Zaki (07:22)
I would like to retract my previous statement.

Joshua Holloway (07:23)
Okay.

Justin Shelley (07:25)
The world's ending. It doesn't matter. I can say whatever the hell I want today. Good God, I'm spicy.

Joshua Holloway (07:31)
Well, hold on, we got

Mario Zaki (07:31)
I would

Joshua Holloway (07:32)
we got Mario's back in his shit.

Justin Shelley (07:34)
Okay, okay.

Mario Zaki (07:34)
I I would like to

retract my previous statement. It had nothing to do with the Microsoft update. It was false information.

Justin Shelley (07:38)
Hmm, hm, I thought so.

Joshua Holloway (07:40)
Dude, Microsoft's lawyers

Mike Microsoft's lawyers were just sitting there like Mr. Birds, just getting ready.

Justin Shelley (07:44)
yeah. We're gonna sue

Mario Zaki (07:45)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (07:47)
this unhacked podcast. Okay.

Bryan Lachapelle (07:48)
But it was an update.

Justin Shelley (07:49)
So guys are your thoughts on on patching. Like this is I don't know. I've said my piece. I want you guys to talk about it.

Joshua Holloway (07:58)
I think it's it's great that they're patchied faster, but it's on us to f figure like to try and start to speed up as well because hackers, everybody else, are using these holes faster and faster. And the only thing we can do is kind of push and I don't know, maybe the the

Justin Shelley (08:18)
That's what

Joshua Holloway (08:19)
thing is is we gotta spray and pray. And I hate to say that because that's a bad idea.

Mario Zaki (08:25)
Do you think they're using AI now to actually analyze their code?

Joshua Holloway (08:30)
Absolutely.

Justin Shelley (08:31)
yeah, that's that's why they've

gone up so so rapidly. Absolutely. And the this

Joshua Holloway (08:35)
And it's scary.

Justin Shelley (08:37)
well, okay, this is good news though, because we're finding this stuff. I've been saying this for a while too. We're finding this stuff faster. We're we're shipping software that is less vulnerable to start with. yes, the bad guys have AI, yes, they're using it against us, yes, there's agent to hacking, we've got all this stuff we're talking about. We don't talk as much because it isn't fun and it doesn't make headlines about how we're using AI to prevent this stuff from ever happening in the first place.

Yes.

Mario Zaki (09:02)
Yes.

Bryan Lachapelle (09:15)
Yeah, you can iterate through an entire code base using AI looking for vulnerabilities faster now than you could ever have done in the past. And you know, if you have, for example, let's say a vulnerability comes up with a specific vulnerability, you can use that knowledge to scan your entire code base all at once to figure out where that vulnerability actually exists, which in the past you would have had to have people manually looking through the code looking for that, right? And now it's all no.

Justin Shelley (09:27)
Right. Millions of lines of code. Human can't do that. Josh, you you described in a different meeting, different conversation, your process for vibe coding. And it was pretty pretty badass. Well you just this

Joshua Holloway (09:29)
So

Mm-hmm.

Justin Shelley (09:43)
let's do the the elevator pitch version as non-technical as possible. And if you need to hit AI up to help you write that, go ahead.

Joshua Holloway (09:55)
As far as just my process and cro encoding.

Justin Shelley (09:57)
Where you've got a you're you're dispatching shit to different agents and having this agent check that agent and you've like this spaghetti

Joshua Holloway (10:03)
Yes.

Justin Shelley (10:05)
flow thing

Bryan Lachapelle (10:05)
Ha.

Justin Shelley (10:06)
flow chart. Yeah, do that.

Joshua Holloway (10:06)
Yeah. So essentially

I the easiest way is I've I have a base developer. Developer understands that it is the one

Justin Shelley (10:14)
By developer,

you are talking about an AI agent, not a human. Okay, just clarifying.

Joshua Holloway (10:17)
That is correct. An AI agent developer that

its sole purpose is writing the code, right? Like I give it its task, it writes it out. Sometimes I'm I'm using graphs or loops. But essentially what happens is we plan everything ahead, we work out the details, and we build a whole action plan. Then the developer starts writing. While that developer is writing, I take the action plan over to a senior developer.

AI agent. So I sat back, I built out what it would take to be a senior AI developer, and I said, your sole purpose is to review developers' work on functionality. are we following our goal? It is it hitting its intended purposes? And then if it can answer all that and that's a yes, it can offer suggestions, but it also falls back, and I refer to it as the council of five, but I have five other agents that analyze.

the the work of the senior and as well as the junior dev as far as is this a legitimate process? Should this be built out? Is this the right direction that we're going and what and what we want to build and establish? And then it hands down to the senior, the senior reviews, it may make some tweaks and changes. It generates a report card I or a prompt. I refer to it as a prompt because right now I'm interacting a little bit more. I'm the human in the loop.

It generates a prompt report card back. I'm trying to I you I use linear, so a lot of stuff goes into linear. Everything gets handed back to the developer. The developer has to read, understand, and report back to me what the senior told it to do, and then we'll kick it off. And sometimes I'll kick it off at like eight, nine o'clock at night, run a loop where I'm like, hey, I've at it. I'll talk to you in the morning. And I've seen it run for six hours, I've seen it run for eight hours. And I come back and you know, we've exponentially

moved

across the process. And the last thing it does is it checks in with linear, it updates. I do have it go to the senior engineer, but I don't trust it. so I I take also I go back and say, hey, your interactions with the developer, what were they like? 'Cause one of the the one of the things I'm curious is is is my my developer agent lying to me saying, yeah, I talked to the senior. Yeah, we we went we went through this process. But yeah, so that's kind of

how I go through that process for all my vibe they are di

Mario Zaki (12:43)
And they're different agents, different like

like Grok the the you know, Fables different models. Yeah, they're different models

Justin Shelley (12:48)
Different models, different yeah.

Joshua Holloway (12:50)
Yep. Yep.

Mario Zaki (12:51)
throughout.

Joshua Holloway (12:51)
Yep. Yeah. Different models, different separate agents. I start them off separately. I never interact with them in the same chat or the same window.

Justin Shelley (12:59)
Do you have a

a security advisor built in there? I'm sure you do, but okay.

Joshua Holloway (13:03)
Yes. Yeah. So

there's another council of five where it's security-minded. I have a couple of skills that are based on a lot of the security metric frameworks, MITRE on it, all those different things. when I get to a certain level, I bypass everybody and then I have the security council audit all of the work. And then I go hunting for issues, problems, holes, and gaps, and then we start that whole process again. My goal is to get that in a full graph.

to where I never even have to interact with it or a loop. I never have to interact with it and it's just building on its own.

Justin Shelley (13:38)
And AI takes over the world. Exactly. Now we're back to the now we're back to the doom and gloom headline.

Joshua Holloway (13:41)
So so so maybe it's me kicking it off.

Mario Zaki (13:43)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (13:45)
I've got a I've got a couple of points and but I'll I'll probably forget most of them. We'll bring it down to this one. How much goddamn time do you have on your hand, Josh? Because like when I'm dev coding, I'm like or vibe coding, dev coding. I'm just like, do

Bryan Lachapelle (13:56)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (13:58)
this and how fast can you do it? God damn it, aren't we done yet? You know, like that's how I do it. And like, deploy. We're good. I mean, I'm kidding, kind of.

Like that is that is impressive. And and it is exactly, you

Bryan Lachapelle (14:10)
Ha ha

Justin Shelley (14:11)
know, I I wanted you to tell that describe that process, not because I think people will replicate it, because I don't think most people will, although they should. but I wanna point out that, you know, we've said this before. We we had a whole series where we showed people what you can do with vibe coding. You gotta be careful. just building something and throwing it out there is super dangerous.

as these things get better and better and smarter and smarter and closer and closer to taking over the world, I do think that we will you know, it'll just kind of be built in inherently. I don't think we're gonna have to do all the stuff that you just described, but today we do.

Brian Mario thoughts. Josh was like, damn it, I was gonna say something.

Mario Zaki (14:53)
No, I I

Yeah, I agree. I think I think we may have to have a little training session, you know, introduce us to your to your councils.

Bryan Lachapelle (15:13)
I love that process. And I'll I'll probably Yeah. No, I like I

Justin Shelley (15:14)
I know right.

Yeah.

Bryan Lachapelle (15:18)
like what Joshman described. I'll I I I I work slightly different right now compared to his his current methodology, but it sounds like it's a really great methodology. and I might adopt adopt

Joshua Holloway (15:19)
I'll I already have ready to ship dou ship out so I can drop over to you guys and and you can you can Yeah.

Justin Shelley (15:23)
And and now you can be the next vendor that I'm pissed at. what do you mind me asking what what platform are you setting

all this up on? Or is it multiple platforms?

Joshua Holloway (15:31)
so right now I do everything through clock.

definitely dancing around thinking about using some other things.

Bryan Lachapelle (15:38)
Yeah, yeah.

Justin Shelley (15:40)
wait, so y are

you only using Claude for all of this then?

Joshua Holloway (15:45)
Yeah. So for a majority of the

Justin Shelley (15:46)
Then you lied to us 'cause

Bryan Lachapelle (15:46)
Yeah.

Mario Zaki (15:46)
And linear.

Justin Shelley (15:48)
but that but if you're not bringing in like ChatGPT or any of the other AI companies, that's what I'm asking. Or is it just all clawed?

Joshua Holloway (15:56)
Yeah.

it's all Claude, different agents, different mod modules inside of Claude. The o yeah, the o

Justin Shelley (16:01)
Different instructions, but all within cloud. Okay. That's the only thing

I would point out is if you're gonna go through all that hassle, you might as well bring in some other companies.

Joshua Holloway (16:10)
So I do that, but

not coding. So a lot a lot of times when I'm interacting with like Chat GPT, we're or writing docs with like Claude, I will pit the two together and let them know, here's what I built and Claude and Claude reviewed, here's what yeah.

Justin Shelley (16:23)
Yeah, you you you've said that before.

Which is why I'm shocked that you didn't set that up with your coding, Josh. I'm not gonna lie. Anyways. Homework for you. okay.

Joshua Holloway (16:31)
Damn it.

Justin Shelley (16:33)
I think I cut you off. I think there was something else you wanted to say about this. Then we're gonna shift gears and we're gonna talk about the world burning down.

Joshua Holloway (16:39)
No, I'm good.

Justin Shelley (16:40)
Okay, the world is burning down, guys. I my little introduction to this is Liana and I, she's the producer, she's the one that puts everything out on social media for you guys that don't know. we're having this conversation and it it came up that there was this a commercial that was put out by Anthropic back in July, I think it was. And it was this idea that you know, if we don't slow down, we're the whole we could end humanity within 10 years.

And I've I I read that. I'm like, my God, what happened? I didn't hear about this. And then by the way, as as we're recording, it's September 10th.

Two months, right? And and I'm like, I looked at the date of this announcement, it was July. I'm like, shit, that's ancient news. I don't have to worry about it. And then I caught myself going, my God, two months is ancient news in the world of AI. but and so I'm just dismissing the whole thing. And then it comes out again yesterday with a Claude was he an executive or a developer, I don't know who retired researcher who quit.

Joshua Holloway (17:45)
Researcher. Yep.

Justin Shelley (17:48)
And basically put out the exact same message. We are being dangerous, reckless, whatever. And we could potentially end humanity within a decade. That's the headline. Did

Bryan Lachapelle (17:59)
yeah.

Justin Shelley (17:59)
I get it right or wrong? Because I'm not reading notes here. I'm just winging this. Okay, anybody?

Mario Zaki (18:03)
Yeah, I mean that's

that's about right. But I I think what's gonna end up happening is you know, they kill us off, they're eventually gonna shut down because all our credit cards are gonna get frozen. And

Justin Shelley (18:13)
That's true. If nobody's buying their shit,

well, I d okay, so here's the scenario. AI's building robots, right? Robots are then building themselves, building all the houses, building everything else. The only people that have any money are the ones that are in the system, and everybody else just dies off. I th I think that's kind of the fear, right? And and you've just got the elites left and everybody else, us peasants, are just fucked. Right?

Mario Zaki (18:36)
Elon, pretty much Elon. Elon is gonna run the world.

Justin Shelley (18:38)
Elon lives.

He he'll be by himself.

Joshua Holloway (18:41)
Hanging

out with o with with Optimus.

Mario Zaki (18:41)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (18:43)
Yeah, he'll f

Bryan Lachapelle (18:44)
Mm.

Justin Shelley (18:44)
he'll finally go to Mars, right. so I

Joshua Holloway (18:49)
I hey so

so gonna go back real quick, it's experts weigh in as researcher says AI has more than ten percent chance of killing

Justin Shelley (18:57)
Right.

Joshua Holloway (18:58)
all humans.

Justin Shelley (18:59)
There was ten percent and then I think it was old Sam from OpenAI who gave it a twenty five percent chance.

Joshua Holloway (19:07)
Yeah, and then another one, the same person, Jacob

Bryan Lachapelle (19:10)
Mars.

Joshua Holloway (19:10)
Coxon who put out this message, who who he's

Justin Shelley (19:11)
He's a recent one yesterday.

Joshua Holloway (19:13)
the researcher, he said to the people in the building upon leaving earnestly believe that it could kill us all by the end of the decade. So by the end of the decade Yeah.

Justin Shelley (19:22)
That's four years, by the way. That's not a that's not ten years. That's four years.

Shit. Guys, whatever you want to do, like you've only got four years left. Live live like you're dying. Isn't there a country song about that? Okay, so here's what I want to do with this.

Mario Zaki (19:37)
I mean that's

a very high percentage by the way, even if it was just ten, not the twenty five, that's a h huge percentage that it could happen.

Justin Shelley (19:44)
It absolutely is. And here's here's

here's where I wanna go. All right. I wanna talk about what it would take to actually end humanity, how AI could actually end humanity. I wanna talk about whether this is a serious like, are you guys worried about it currently? If so, why? If not, why? And what's the solution? All right, that's the subject for the rest of the episode. We've got four minutes. Go.

Joshua Holloway (20:07)
dude, this that's a easy one. Turn off the power.

Justin Shelley (20:10)
Then we can't heat our houses, Josh. And then we die. See? Humanity ends.

Mario Zaki (20:13)
He lives in C lives in California.

He lives in California. He doesn't need heat. Brian lives in Canada. Yeah, last week was proof of that.

Justin Shelley (20:19)
He needs a C, he needs a C. He will

Joshua Holloway (20:22)
As a a

as proof of last week's episode, I was dying.

Justin Shelley (20:27)
Yeah.

Wait, we've gone to solution. No, no, no, no. You guys jumped way to the end of the conversation. What would it take? What would actually have to happen for AI to end humanity? How is it going to actually kill everybody?

Yep. Okay. Wrote. So

Bryan Lachapelle (20:51)
I mean

Justin Shelley (20:52)
so i robot comes out. iRobot comes true. Will

Smith was right.

Joshua Holloway (20:56)
Super virus.

Justin Shelley (20:59)
Supervice. Yeah.

Bryan Lachapelle (20:57)
If if I were if I were in charge, yeah, I would probably put some sort of dead man

switch on all the data centers. well okay.

Mario Zaki (21:04)
I mean I I I I mean AI

could technically go get into and they have you know before AI hackers have gotten into water treatment plants and have tried to like poison and and do stuff. So, you know, based on like two, three episodes ago or one episode I I lost track. It can literally do it on its own. One person can say

Bryan Lachapelle (21:15)
have you seen those robots that China created? Millions of those dropped on any continent. Done. Yeah. With little drones attached to them so they can like send out little drones. Yeah. Yeah. We're we're

Justin Shelley (21:19)
Right.

Bryan Lachapelle (21:33)
done. If they if they drop a million of those.

Mario Zaki (21:33)
I want to do this and it can just go out

and and find a water treatment plan and start attacking it like that. It doesn't have to be physical with like drones and stuff like that, but they can technically cut off like s water supplies or poison water supplies. maybe get into certain like food treatment, you know, f you know, I don't know about necessarily farms, but like anything processing, food processing.

They could attack it that way.

Joshua Holloway (22:06)
Well if you if you look at water, we need water. we have a survivability, was it three days in most cases? After three days without water, we're pretty much toast. So y if you

Justin Shelley (22:17)
Mm-hmm.

Joshua Holloway (22:19)
take out the water source

Mario Zaki (22:23)
Or worse yet, if they they get into coffee. I I can't operate more than twenty four hours with coffee.

Justin Shelley (22:27)
That's now

we're talking. That that is a bigger problem than water.

Joshua Holloway (22:29)
So so if you wanna take out all the IT

guys and law enforcement like

Justin Shelley (22:38)
So infrastructure, right?

Mario Zaki (22:38)
But you know

Justin Shelley (22:39)
They can disrupt infrastructure. I mean the the jobs thing.

Mario Zaki (22:42)
Which hackers have

been trying to do for years. Now

Justin Shelley (22:46)
Correct.

Mario Zaki (22:47)
providing a an AI tool that can probably do it faster and better could get a little more, you know, hairy.

Justin Shelley (22:57)
And to me, this is assuming that we're not gonna fight fire with fire. Assuming we're not gonna use our own AI tools to combat

Bryan Lachapelle (23:00)
Yeah,

Justin Shelley (23:02)
the problems and to, you know, like this that to me personally isn't as scary as some of the other things. Let's talk about jobs. They took our jobs with South Park, right? Any South Park fans in the room? Doesn't matter. they've renamed that. There's no more South Park. It's now South America. Whatever. they took our jobs, right? What what what is your guys' best crystal ball prediction of

AI and the job.

Joshua Holloway (23:32)
That's a question. Yeah, it is a tough one. as of right now, it's being used to display some jobs, but I think people will head more towards like humanistic roles where old jobs will go away because automations or AIs will do it. new job roles will pop up. I know like in the IT industry, I don't know about you guys, but I feel like there's gonna be, you know, jobs for AI security, there's gonna be jobs for AI administration, things like that outside

everyday employees, it's it's really gonna boil down to what

Bryan Lachapelle (24:05)
That's tough one. Yeah.

Joshua Holloway (24:07)
what needs to be human led or human in the middle. And I think a lot of people are gonna go back to that human interaction. you know, people hate

Justin Shelley (24:13)
Right, yeah.

Joshua Holloway (24:14)
that people hate calling and getting the robocaller.

Justin Shelley (24:18)
Yeah.

Joshua Holloway (24:18)
You know? Well like how many s how many how many phones do you think have been broken because they hate the the freaking,

Justin Shelley (24:23)
Mm-hmm.

Joshua Holloway (24:24)
you know, robocaller. I I actually we

Justin Shelley (24:26)
Mm-hmm.

Joshua Holloway (24:26)
we have a we have a failover robocaller, AI. It

We'll talk to you, work out with you, enter like pretty much do the entire ticket aside from doing something that could harm the system. And it's a mixed bag. Like I have people who have emailed me and said, like, I absolutely hate this. And I said, We only use it as a like rollover when everybody in the company is on a call. so it like it helps us. It still takes in those calls for us because everybody's on the phone. but for them, they're just like, We absolutely hate this.

And I I I I actually was talking to somebody regarding a five star review and I was like, Hey, this is great. Thank you so much. Well, the only reason we didn't we or the only reason we gave you the five star review is because the last time I called, I had to call or I had to talk to your robo caller or AI. This time I didn't. So that's why I gave you five stars.

And I was like, Whoa, okay, noted. You you know, like did I didn't know that that yeah, I didn't know that pissed you off.

Justin Shelley (25:22)
Oops. Yeah. Don't do that no more.

Joshua Holloway (25:29)
You know, but I I think that that's a real world thing where it's like we're so accustomed to like we do everything we can in our power, and I'm sure you guys do too. Answer the phone, be the human, jump on the issue. There's bad days. You guys, we all have right? Like Microsoft decides to go down, so our phones kick off and we're talking to all everybody and their mother, like we need help, and that's what we rely on to help us out because I can't spin up a thousand employees to answer.

all of the calls at once, right? And that and that's a hard thing to do. Where that's where I think AI will come in and like benefit. And you're gonna have detractors or naysayers and then you're gonna have people who are like, hey, I get it. I'm I have no problem talking to it.

Justin Shelley (26:13)
All right, Brian Amari, you're being way too quiet. They took her jobs. Thoughts.

Mario Zaki (26:50)
Mm-hmm.

Bryan Lachapelle (26:58)
My my my my my initial concerns or thoughts are that there yeah, there will be like like everything else in the history of of mankind, you know, when new technologies come, when new industries evolve, like when the industrial revolution started or the information technology revolution started, you know, there's always been some displacement in any kind of job market, right? As we become more proficient at automating things, it becomes less and less important.

Justin Shelley (27:22)
We can actually enjoy our lives? Is that what you're saying? Is that that hmm

Bryan Lachapelle (27:27)
For a human to do that particular role, but then other jobs are spawned from that. will that will that automatically happen again with AI? I I don't think it'll be the same, but it it will be similar where new jobs are created. And as long as it all depends on how us as a society, governments and and and our politicians decide how we're gonna change because

as AI is able to do more and more and more, we may be in a position where maybe we need to work less and have a little bit more freedom. But that will Yeah, but yes. But that will require a structural change in how we are all we all work. Maybe like a change in in in how taxation is done, right? So instead of taxing people, you tax you know something else, ta tax income of the of the corporations, not not profit, the actual income, right?

so that regardless of whether they make a profit or not, they're they're paying their taxes. and those taxes could be utilized for whether it's some sort of social programs, because you know, or paying people more per hour based on the fact that they don't have to work as much. You know, we were all promised, you know, a four day work week or a three day work week. That shit never happened. All the money went back to the, you know, the big corporations and and you know, most of us like who are business owners are fine, but a lot of people are are, you know.

Justin Shelley (28:54)
Mario,

Bryan Lachapelle (28:55)
suffering right now

Justin Shelley (28:55)
you're up.

Bryan Lachapelle (28:56)
with low income and that will continue to that trend will continue unless something has changed, especially with the advent of AI. The bigger corporations will be able to implement more AI, keep more of the of the profit and more of the the income for themselves. So something's gotta change. So that's what I'm saying. I can't predict what's gonna happen because if the governments do change how taxation works or or laws work with regards to less work,

Mario Zaki (28:56)
First of all, fuck taxes. I don't want them to erase taxes. you know, and I I have a couple different takes on this because you know, one of them can be controversial, but I'll I'll say it. the first thing is I do have like a cousin that works for Amazon and another cousin that works for Shopify

Bryan Lachapelle (29:24)
Then maybe we'll be fine.

Mario Zaki (29:24)
as developers.

Bryan Lachapelle (29:25)
But if not, yeah, the lot of people might be might be out of a job temporarily as as we retool and find new industries or new work for for people who were displaced. so it's yeah, it's a challenge.

Mario Zaki (29:25)
And you know, I've talked to them and you know, they, you know, probably gathering more stuff for our podcast. And they told us they haven't laid off anybody. They're actually still hiring more. but they are requiring

all their developers to use AI. it's not that they're replacing anybody, but they're they're expecting more output from from you know, to become more efficient in these. And then as a business owner,

Bryan Lachapelle (29:44)
I don't want to raise it, but I also don't want a revolution where we're all, you know, heads chopped off like they did in France.

Justin Shelley (29:46)
You're more efficient. Yeah.

Mario Zaki (29:53)
you know

I have to say i you know, especially within you know, since COVID and stuff like that, the hiring process has not been, you know, easy. You know, w there's people that, you know, we'll put out job posts, we'll get, you know, hundreds of resumes and we'll call a you know, mass like a majority of them and they either don't reply, they don't show up to like a Zoom interview, they don't show up to in person or even if you offer the position.

Some of them don't even show up for the first day. So yeah, yeah,

Joshua Holloway (30:25)
They show up for a day and that's it, or two days.

Mario Zaki (30:28)
and exactly. And they they come in and then they just leave. Some of them are just trying to satisfy their unemployment and stuff like that. I I know it's not everybody, but it's a it's a it's a good amount of the people that are doing this. you know, I used to I used to get resumes even after I took the job post down, I would still get more resumes. Hey, we know you had you know this offering here, I just want to offer.

Now

it's like pulling teeth just to get somebody to to apply or to even show up to an interview. So so honestly, in my opinion, if we can take away those jobs and have it with AI, i you know, I I know it's controversial to to say this, but I'm all for it. You know, it's not e nobody wants to work now anyway. That's

Justin Shelley (31:14)
Yeah.

Mario Zaki (31:14)
my opinion.

Justin Shelley (31:15)
Okay. Mario finally gets a little bit animated over something. I like it. I like it.

Joshua Holloway (31:17)
You know, Mario, I

Mario Zaki (31:20)
Yeah.

Joshua Holloway (31:22)
you know, in some aspects I agree with you, Mario. The I think that in others, the speed at which we work, I think AI helps us out tremendously. like I built a triage agent to help parse tickets, look at faster, get eyes on quicker. We're still adding bodies. We're still growing, but we're also augmenting with AI to be better, faster, stronger.

for our for our clients and for for industry because

They're expecting better, faster, stronger. And yeah, that might have like a little bit of a price push, you know, in there. but yeah, I'm definitely not looking to get rid of. I'm looking to augment and improve. And especially in the IT industry, you know, with you know, I need more guys and more AIs to look at nine hundred and seventy-four patches, you know, and prep for it prep for deployment.

Justin Shelley (32:14)
Right, right. Our

job, my my where I've been the most wrong about AI is like I've I and I think this is common in our industry. We worry that it's going to replace us, that we won't need IT anymore. that has been a fear in the IT industry forever. Like plug and play. Do you guys remember when plug and play first came out? Like, my god, we're not gonna need to do IRQs anymore. Who

Joshua Holloway (32:38)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (32:39)
w what how are we gonna get paid? We're the only ones who know how to do IRQs.

And and then we've got to cloud, like everything's gonna move to the cloud. Well now what are we gonna do? i it just it just keeps happening over and over where we think that we're gonna get replaced and actually we end up more inundated than ever.

Joshua Holloway (32:59)
The other funny one I think about too is Microsoft's announcement to remove exchange from a small business server and announce Office 365 in its infancy. I just I remember being

Justin Shelley (33:10)
Mm-hmm.

Joshua Holloway (33:11)
in trade shows and people melting and you know being in talk

Justin Shelley (33:13)
Yeah. What are we gonna do?

Joshua Holloway (33:15)
yeah and being in talks with you know the Microsoft you know certified experts and people like all these technicians are asking them about like you're taking away our jobs and I'm like please take away exchange. It takes so much to administer.

Mario Zaki (33:27)
Yes.

Joshua Holloway (33:29)
And it's such a pain in the ass to back up.

Mario Zaki (33:29)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (33:30)
So does so does Microsoft

Bryan Lachapelle (33:30)
my gosh.

Justin Shelley (33:32)
365 though. It did not get simpler, it did not get easier, it

Joshua Holloway (33:36)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (33:36)
got more complicated. There's more now there's more at risk. You've got to secure that shit and you don't own it. And it changes every time you go in there. It's a different interface, different website to log into. I don't even know. What's the admin play? You know, like Microsoft's admin thing changes. I it didn't get better. That's what I'm saying.

Mario Zaki (33:51)
Yeah, and they keep changing the name and goes from Azure to Intra

to whatever. Yeah, God knows. Yeah. yeah, it i i I don't think

Joshua Holloway (33:55)
Entra, yeah. Purview, all that stuff.

Bryan Lachapelle (33:55)
Yeah, yeah.

Justin Shelley (33:57)
It's like, God damn it. Okay, so I think is it safe to

say we all believe that our jobs in the IT industry are safe for at least the next two or three months?

Mario Zaki (34:10)
Yes.

Justin Shelley (34:11)
'Cause as far as we can predict, everything's changing. Right.

Joshua Holloway (34:13)
Yeah, ninety days. Sixty

Mario Zaki (34:15)
Yeah.

Joshua Holloway (34:16)
to ninety days. We're good.

Mario Zaki (34:16)
I now

the question is, are we gonna lose our jobs first or our lives first? That's what we we really need to discuss.

Justin Shelley (34:22)
I know that's the

headline. We're all gonna die in the by the end of the decade. It's actually three

Mario Zaki (34:26)
Mm.

Justin Shelley (34:27)
years, because we're at the end of 26.

Bryan Lachapelle (34:28)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (34:30)
Right? Three my math. okay.

Joshua Holloway (34:32)
Dang it.

Justin Shelley (34:33)
So so I I I've got a couple points to make. Number one, we think because we've all we have all lived our entire existence with technology being entrenched in everything we do. So here's something that doesn't get talked about very much.

the human species evolved over the course of millions of years, all without technology. So is it possible that we would survive without technology?

Mm-hmm.

Mario Zaki (35:05)
I mean don't take away my TikTok, but

Justin Shelley (35:07)
That's

what I'm saying. We think we can't, but listen, probably, probably

Bryan Lachapelle (35:10)
yeah. No doubt.

Justin Shelley (35:19)
That is a problem. We'd have to d like go back to yeah.

Mario Zaki (35:24)
My kids are fucked.

Justin Shelley (35:28)
Well

Joshua Holloway (35:27)
As as most kids.

Justin Shelley (35:29)
learn

Darwin will help us out. Survival of the fittest. We're gonna, yeah. okay. here's another thing I want to point out. This is our brains. We are biologically wired for survival, right? Everything about what we do is about survival, whether we like to admit it or not. we're it's it's healthy, it's normal to be afraid. Like,

All we do is we look, our brains are scanning everything we do. We've got this filter. We take in so much information that we don't really internalize or lock in because it's not important to us. The thing that's most important is survival. So we're always we're always scanning for these dangers. And that's what, you know, how many times a year do we have the next thing that's gonna end society or that's gonna like you guys, you know, when when COVID came out, I was not worried at all because I'd been through swine flu, bird flu, like.

Bryan Lachapelle (36:13)
I think a I think some of us could survive without technology. Those of us who have the survival skills and have been practicing them and and utilizing them. Yeah. Yeah. But a good chunk of people won't. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There There are some people who like have to pick up dinner

on a way home because they literally have no food in their house. So, you know, when when you know storms happen or whatever, they starve. 'Cause they don't have any food. So yeah.

Justin Shelley (36:33)
Chicken pox flu, like everything. It's like, guys, everybody gets their panties in a bunch and nothing comes of it. Now, I was I was rocked. I'm not gonna lie. When when COVID was

worse than everybody predicted.

Bryan Lachapelle (36:43)
It's

Justin Shelley (36:45)
but again, we're always focused on what we're afraid of. So go back to the nuclear arms race. We all thought the world you guys remember that who was around for that? Raise your hand if you're old enough to remember when we thought is Russia gonna blow up USSR, are they gonna blow us up first? Are we gonna blow them up first? Or is somebody else gonna get a hold of the nukes?

How is society going to survive? We were confident we are going to wipe society off the face of the earth with nuclear the arms race. Now Russia almost did it with Chernobyl. If you guys haven't researched Chernobyl, go watch those shows. we almost did in humanity. but I I think my crystal ball is we're in another time like that. Are we smart enough to blow ourselves up? Absolutely, yes, we are. Could we do it? Sure. Are we going to do it? No.

I just I just can't I don't I don't for a second believe that this entire planet is going to allow something to annihilate us. We've we just always are afraid of it and we always talk about it. There we go. Rant over, go ahead and break down my thoughts or come up with your own.

Mario Zaki (37:47)
Well r remember wh why two K?

Justin Shelley (37:50)
Yeah, exactly. Well I but again, these are real issues, so I don't want to dismiss them and make it sound like I'm just saying, hey, we don't have to worry about it. The amount of programming, the the reengineering that went in

the years leading up to the year two thousand was crazy. It was crazy. The fear was legitimate. The the and it was the same thing, infrastructure is gonna get wiped out. Legitimately. So

Joshua Holloway (38:14)
Mm-hmm.

Justin Shelley (38:15)
I I think this is just history repeating itself. Thoughts. Prove me wrong.

Joshua Holloway (38:20)
I still think there

I still think there needs to be guardrails or there needs to

Justin Shelley (38:24)
Of course, replied.

Joshua Holloway (38:25)
be proper planning so that we don't have these models going nuts.

Justin Shelley (38:27)
But I'm saying, Josh, I'm saying

that's what we do every single time. The threats are real. We're we're wired to scan for them, to find them, to extinguish them. And I think we're gonna do it again here.

Joshua Holloway (38:38)
We're gonna have to here pretty soon 'cause I mean there's so many people coming out and saying we're do it's we're doomed. We're we're you know, like the w the sky is falling. I mean, how many times have we,

Justin Shelley (38:46)
Yeah, yeah.

Joshua Holloway (38:47)
you know, s sat in you know, in the on this podcast and talked about AI hacking by itself or AI breaking out and hacking, you know, another place. And then I think that's more commonplace.

Justin Shelley (38:58)
Which we largely debunked

because it doesn't do it by itself. Does it cause humans told it to.

Joshua Holloway (39:01)
Yeah. Right.

Mario Zaki (39:04)
But but also

again, i we we concluded that if you take the proper measures to protect your business

Bryan Lachapelle (39:11)
Massive.

Mario Zaki (39:11)
and protect, you know, your data, just like if you were protecting yourself from just a human being, you'll you'll be fine. You know? I just do what w you know, is supposed to be done and you'll be fine. You know, it's

Justin Shelley (39:27)
Go go back to episode

Joshua Holloway (39:28)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (39:29)
seventy five and listen to all twelve episodes or go to unhackmybusiness dot com where it's all laid out for you with instructions and just do the shit we've been telling you to do. Is that what you're trying to say, Mario? I'll put some word into your

Mario Zaki (39:38)
Exact exactly.

Justin Shelley (39:40)
mouth.

Mm well, well

Yeah.

So

Bryan Lachapelle (40:11)
Yeah.

Joshua Holloway (40:16)
Uh-huh.

Justin Shelley (40:17)
Well, isn't it interesting though that Claude just a Claude Code, I that's what I use, just set the default mode to auto. Like it it does not it does not ask you like it used to about every and I'll be honest, most of the stuff it would ask is like I'm not gonna sit here and read every single thing that it spits out of me. Just the summary of what it's

Bryan Lachapelle (40:33)
Do exactly what we say and nothing else.

Justin Shelley (40:36)
doing is bad enough. so and then then Josh, I just heard you say with all of the stuff you set up, your whole goal was to engineer yourself out of man in the middle job.

Mario Zaki (40:48)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (40:48)
Hmm

Bryan Lachapelle (40:48)
And and

Joshua Holloway (40:49)
Yeah.

Bryan Lachapelle (40:49)
and on top of that, because we haven't I mean we discussed it in future in

Justin Shelley (40:50)
hmm.

Bryan Lachapelle (40:52)
other episodes, but always put a man in the middle, a person in the middle, right? And so when you're developing any

Justin Shelley (40:56)
Doesn't it doesn't launch missiles?

Bryan Lachapelle (40:58)
kind of AI anything, right, always make sure that there's there's a gap where a

Joshua Holloway (40:59)
Yeah, not this not not this code set.

Mario Zaki (41:00)
Not yet. Not yet.

Justin Shelley (41:02)
Ha ha ha.

Mario Zaki (41:03)
Yeah.

Bryan Lachapelle (41:04)
actual person has

to do the next step. Then wherever there's d not I'm not talking about like every ten seconds, I'm talking about wherever there's a major break, right? Wherever there's a major like a major action that's going to be taken that you can't take back.

Justin Shelley (41:06)
all right. guys I think I it's time for me to go get some strong whiskey. 'cause the world's ending. What do you guys have for final thoughts? I I don't if we missed anything, call me on

it, but otherwise, it's five o'clock somewhere.

Bryan Lachapelle (41:19)
Right, whether that's in sales, marketing, or in your in whatever your

business is, right? especially if you're in military, you know, that kind of stuff.

Joshua Holloway (41:25)
Absolutely.

Justin Shelley (41:25)
And the room goes quiet. All right, episode

Mario Zaki (41:25)
Yeah, I I mean f f

Justin Shelley (41:27)
over.

Mario Zaki (41:28)
yeah, I mean honestly, stay calm, do what you're told, and you'll be fine. By us.

Bryan Lachapelle (41:34)
I did notice that, yeah.

Justin Shelley (41:34)
Do what you're told exactly.

Joshua Holloway (41:36)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (41:38)
Or by the AI bots, the the Chinese robots that are gonna get deployed? Not funny. What what else we got, guys?

Mario Zaki (41:48)
I

I I literally fe hear the the viewers just ending the podcast.

Justin Shelley (41:54)
I don't

like unsubscribe. That's

Mario Zaki (41:57)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (41:59)
okay. My my little can of Dr. Pepper is a cool disguise for what's real you

Bryan Lachapelle (41:58)
Anything that can be undone though. Like a lot of stuff to what what Josh was talking about can be undone. Like it doesn't actually

Justin Shelley (42:04)
know.

Bryan Lachapelle (42:04)
override his existing code. You can always revert. No. Not yet. That's version two.

Joshua Holloway (42:07)
You what, we don't know what that we don't know what the future holds. We just need to keep going and moving forward for the business owners, grow your business, keep moving forward. For the employees,

Justin Shelley (42:07)
All right, guys.

Joshua Holloway (42:17)
do the job you signed up for. for the IT guys, make sure you're patching and protecting. Do your job. Do proper cybersecurity, mitigate the attacks, whether they're coming from all the different hackers we talk about and the AI hackers that are being directed our ways. And I think

Bryan Lachapelle (42:32)
Yeah.

Joshua Holloway (42:33)
we'll we'll

We can look back and s you know, in ten years from now going, Hey, do you remember when we were all afraid of, you know, the

Bryan Lachapelle (42:39)
Peace.

Joshua Holloway (42:40)
AI taking over? And hopefully we could Yeah, that was really dumb. That's like that's our hope, right? Instead of and you know, so instead of the opposite. I always I always think about acid rain in the eighties, right? You're they scared the hell they they s they scared the living bejesus out of every kid about and it to my to

Justin Shelley (42:52)
yeah, that I forgot about that one. Yeah. Yeah.

Joshua Holloway (42:57)
this day I still think about how acid rain's gonna burn all of the trees.

where it's like, my skin's gonna burn off like all you know, and that and that didn't come.

Justin Shelley (43:05)
I forgot about that one.

Joshua Holloway (43:06)
Yeah. Acid rain, for some reason my school system was like, You're all gonna die because of acid rain

Bryan Lachapelle (43:08)
Yeah, yeah. They're like Bye. Yeah. Yeah,

this is the

Justin Shelley (43:13)
Well, nuclear

do you not remember the nuclear drills?

Joshua Holloway (43:15)
I do.

Justin Shelley (43:15)
Did you guys have those?

Joshua Holloway (43:17)
We did.

Mario Zaki (43:18)
Mm.

Justin Shelley (43:19)
Brian, l listen, I'll

just go right I'm just gonna loop right back into it. Brian, what what are your final thoughts here?

Joshua Holloway (43:44)
If not, hit

Justin Shelley (43:44)
Good enough.

Joshua Holloway (43:45)
us hit us all up and one of us will will do it for ya.

Justin Shelley (43:48)
Yeah, there is that.

There is that.

Mario Zaki (43:50)
to

Justin Shelley (43:53)
To help.

Mario Zaki (43:53)
And take your vitamins and say your prayers.

Joshua Holloway (43:56)
Ha ha.

Justin Shelley (43:58)
I I I want to end with a little bit of a

Bryan Lachapelle (43:59)
Yeah. Yeah.

Justin Shelley (44:01)
kind of a a hopeful message. I I love you guys, we we sit here every week and we record, but we also are in different meetings where we we do talk business. and in a very uncertain economy and uncertain environment, the technology world is just absolutely nuts these days.

Every single week

Bryan Lachapelle (44:19)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (44:20)
somebody in our group is talking about business growth, sold new stuff, their clients are growing. so where I do get myself out of doom and gloom, because I'll be honest, I go there on

Bryan Lachapelle (44:32)
No.

Justin Shelley (44:32)
occasion. that is where I find hope. We just look around at what's really going on. Fuck the headlines. All right. Look what's really happening. Be your own news reporter. go out and and talk to other business owners, find out what's going on in their world.

Bryan Lachapelle (44:42)
I'm gonna echo what Josh said and just basically, you know, take it the precautions that we've been talking about this whole time. And if you're

someone who's running an AI company and you happen to be listening to this podcast for whatever bizarre reason, just please put the protections in place that your your security engineers tell you to do. Okay? That's it.

Justin Shelley (44:50)
and yeah, just just keep going. We're gonna solve this problem like we've solved every problem that has almost ended humanity. I firmly believe that. if not, maybe we're butting up against the great filter.

That's a subject for another episode. Any anybody here familiar with that concept? Or the Fermi paradox or whatever?

Bryan Lachapelle (45:03)
Yeah. Yeah. We'll probably use AI to help though.

Justin Shelley (45:10)
we won't we won't start another episode right

Bryan Lachapelle (45:12)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (45:13)
now, but maybe maybe we're maybe we're due to break that one down. So

meanwhile, while you've got a minute to contemplate your future, go to unhackmybusiness.com and and tell us I want you to pick up episode one three or whatever we're recording on. It is one three, right? Yes, one three. And I want your feedback, people. I want to know what you think is gonna happen. What does your crystal ball say? what are you afraid of? What are you confident in? And like interact with us so we can

Talk about more than what just the four of us think. That's that's what I'd like to see. So that's all I've got. Guys, say goodbye. No order. Just say goodbye. Peace out. We're out of here. It's Miller time.

Joshua Holloway (45:54)
Goodbye, everybody.

Justin Shelley (45:57)
See you next

Mario Zaki (45:57)
Peace out.

Justin Shelley (45:58)
week.

Joshua Holloway (45:59)
Stay unhacked.

But heck.

Bryan Lachapelle (46:26)
yeah, the great filter. Yep.

Have a good one.

Un act.