UnHacked - Cybersecurity Made Simple for Small Businesses

Justin Shelley (00:00)
Welcome everybody to episode 81 of Unhacked. Brian, this is our seventh in the mini series on the cybersecurity basics. Cause Brian, we've been talking about it forever from, from day one, just do the basics and you're good. ⁓ But what the hell are, what the hell are the basics? So ⁓ we'll, be 12 episodes in before we get that sorted out. So it's just a mirror, you know, eight to 12 hours of listening to us and you'll know what the basics are. That's the good news. That's the good news.

Bryan Lachapelle (00:09)
It is.

We have.

Yeah.

Justin Shelley (00:28)
⁓

guys, I am Justin Shelley, CEO of Phoenix IT advisors, and we help businesses use technology. And these days it's all about AI, ⁓ to build wealth, to make money, and then protect that money from the evil Russian hackers, the government fines and penalties and those dirty class action attorneys who are going to come and sue you. Should you get breached? That's what we do. Brian, tell everybody who you are and what you do.

Bryan Lachapelle (00:54)
name is Brian Lashpell. I'm with B4 Networks based out of beautiful Ontario, Canada and Niagara, Ontario, Canada. My apologies. And I help business owners ⁓ remove the frustrations and problems that come with dealing with technology.

Justin Shelley (01:08)
Right. And we're missing our loyal, faithful Mario. He's usually here every single week without fail. ⁓ I think Brian, he's probably more consistent than I am. anyways, he's gone. He's on his way to Florida, that bastard. ⁓ and speaking of being gone, ⁓ we have missed two weeks in a row now and I have to own that that's on me because I was on vacation, had a great time, ⁓ took the

Bryan Lachapelle (01:16)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (01:37)
the lady and my siblings and their spouses and we all went to Jamaica. ⁓ It was a beautiful vacation, Brian, as you well know, within three hours of arrival in my brilliance and not, you know, I will confess a few drinks in, I decided to get into the swimming pool, cannonball style and miscalculated the depth. I hit the water and then the cement almost at the same time broke my leg and I got to sit.

Bryan Lachapelle (01:45)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (02:04)
in the basement of the house in Jamaica, hardly saw the outside for a full week and then I got to come home. Anyways, it's been a mess. I don't know. I'm just.

Bryan Lachapelle (02:12)
How can we convert that into an analogy for IT? A business owner who

dives in feet first and doesn't do the basics.

Justin Shelley (02:21)
Well here here i'll

tell you what i've been telling this has nothing to do with your what you just said but I do say listen It's not my fault because there are warning signs right on the shallow end that say do not dive And brian I didn't dive and I still got hurt now, so i'm kind of pissed They don't have any signs about cannonballing into the shallow end And i'm thinking I should sue somebody but I don't know if you can sue people in jamaica. I don't know So I guess i'm just gonna have to suck it up So here I am

Bryan Lachapelle (02:35)
You didn't dive. Yeah, what's up with that?

No.

Good luck. Suck it up buttercup.

Justin Shelley (02:52)
the opposite of mobile sitting at my desk. If I want to move, hurts. Everything I do just hurts. I've got my, my trusty crutches sitting here, some weird new European style, I guess. I don't know.

Bryan Lachapelle (02:58)
You

Justin Shelley (03:09)
There we go.

Bryan Lachapelle (03:10)
You said when you move it hurts. That's just old age, Justin. You're just old.

Justin Shelley (03:13)
That's all change. know that is true. No. Okay.

Listen, I know this is way off topic and people probably don't care. This is my first experience with crutches and I am blown away at how physically exhausting it is to get around on crutches. You know, the first few little jaunts trips, whatever. Fine. I felt like a bad-ass. like, I got this. You know, I can go screaming around the house on these crutches, but then she gets tired and your hands start to hurt.

Bryan Lachapelle (03:41)
Mm-hmm.

Justin Shelley (03:42)
And your abs, like it's a full blown ab workout every step. So, I mean, I'm, I'm a week and a half into this and I am sore everywhere, including my foot or ankle or whatever the hell it is.

Bryan Lachapelle (03:46)
There you go. Yeah.

So maybe that just

will encourage you to start going to exercising and getting fit again.

Justin Shelley (03:59)
I've been exercising and

I'm telling you, it's a good thing because if I hadn't been, I don't think I'd be able to move on these damn crutches. It's a lot of work. I'm glad I was in some amount of good shape before this. Anyway, I don't know. We're way off topic. How does it apply? We are going to talk about something that used to be super important. And today we're going to discuss how important it really is. We're talking about network and perimeter security.

Bryan Lachapelle (04:05)
You

All right. Yeah, what is our topic today, Justin?

Right.

Justin Shelley (04:28)
Listen, we've already kind of gone over the fact that the perimeter has changed. It used to be that we could put a firewall in place and an antivirus of some sort and we were good. These days, I mean, actually, I think I got you on this question. It was the topic and I'm like, Brian, what is, I don't remember what it was. Do you know what I'm talking about? The answer was the perimeter. think, I don't know. What is the perimeter? How do we define the perimeter these days? Cause if we're going to secure it, we got to know what it is. What is it?

Bryan Lachapelle (04:34)
Mm-hmm.

I do, but I don't remember what it

Well, there is no perimeter. Yeah, the limit does not exist. I did the joke. Mean girls, yeah.

Justin Shelley (05:00)
Yeah, it really isn't.

you did the joke, the joke. I'm not privy to cause it's what's it from the movie, the mean girls, mean girls. Yeah.

Not, not in my wheelhouse. I w I've never seen that. ⁓ so I'm going to start with this question. want your just honest opinion. Do we even need firewalls anymore? Why?

Bryan Lachapelle (05:15)
No.

Yes,

whether they're physical ⁓ or virtual, you need a firewall. if the majority of your staff is internal and they go to an office, then a firewall is important. It protects the physical perimeter of your actual building and the network and things like that. ⁓ In either case,

Justin Shelley (05:31)
Okay, so let's say, no, go ahead, go ahead.

Yeah.

Bryan Lachapelle (05:49)
⁓ you should have firewalls when you're operating a computer, whether it's a physical one or a virtual one, virtual one meaning that when I'm out and about, ⁓ my computer has a firewall, but I can also remote into my office or VPN into my office and then my traffic will go through the office firewall. There are technologies today that will allow you to do all of that automatically and seamless as if all of your computers, regardless of where they are, even if you're all working remotely, operate as if it was one internal network.

Justin Shelley (06:18)
Yeah.

Bryan Lachapelle (06:19)
And so, yes, firewalls are still important. They just look differently than they used to.

Justin Shelley (06:25)
Yeah, I mean, I guess then we just kind of need to redefine what a firewall is, right? Because we do still have the physical firewalls that are very advanced. do a lot of stuff. They are necessary. But it's not a one trick circus anymore, right? You've got to have ⁓ software firewalls or the concept of a firewall working to protect every place that you are and every place that you have data. Yeah. Does that sound accurate?

Bryan Lachapelle (06:55)
I mean, you can't put a firewall behind your Office 365 account or some of your cloud services that you have. those effectively live outside the firewall, but your vendors will have their own version of a firewall. Yeah.

Justin Shelley (07:08)
somebody's got to protect it, whether it's you

or, you know, you need to know that, and you know, you're to bring up my, my Microsoft 365. There's all kinds of stuff that we have to do within that tenant to protect it. So sure. It's not a physical box that we're putting in anymore, but it takes a lot of work now to go in there and, and lock it down the way it's supposed to. In fact, we bring in third party, um, services to do that, to, to lock it down in the first place, and then also to monitor it and make sure that it's.

Bryan Lachapelle (07:28)
sure does.

Correct.

Justin Shelley (07:37)
you know, that people aren't getting in. And if they do to alert us, it's effectively a firewall that we put into Microsoft 365. It just doesn't look like a square box anymore like it used to.

Bryan Lachapelle (07:46)
I think it's more than a firewall, because a firewall is more or less limited to the traffic going in and out of it, versus the tools that we're having with Office 365 is actively monitoring ⁓ things that are happening inside the tenant, inside your folder structures, inside of emails that are coming in. Maybe somebody creates a rule in an email or logs in to the account from an unknown location. It's monitoring all those type of logs and taking action based on.

Justin Shelley (07:51)
Yeah.

Bryan Lachapelle (08:14)
if somebody is logging in from two different areas at the same time, not physically possible, it sort of locks the account down. ⁓

Justin Shelley (08:23)
And I'm listening to you say that as I try to apply it directly to the old school physical firewalls, there's not a lot of difference. You go in there and it monitors traffic in and out and then it looks at what who's doing what and it locks this down or that down and it sends alerts. mean, it's, it's close. It's close. It's comparable, right? It's different. It's different.

Bryan Lachapelle (08:38)
Yeah.

It is, but my firewall doesn't

connect to my computer. if somebody is physically on a computer doing stuff, ⁓ it can't know what's happening inside my box. But with Office 365 and the monitoring, if something is happening inside the tenant, it's obviously occurring remotely. But once they've already authenticated, the traffic isn't really being monitored by whatever firewall they're using. Otherwise, Microsoft would be able to do it all on their own. But these third party tools are looking at.

Justin Shelley (09:01)
Yeah.

Bryan Lachapelle (09:11)
more than just what a firewall would. But yeah, I guess the analogy is still there.

Justin Shelley (09:15)
It's close in functionality, even though it's different. But also, so what you're describing is kind of a seam or Sam or however you want to say it. You know, we have that capability for our workstations and our firewalls as well. The bottom line is it's just complicated and there's a lot of layers. You know, I mean, we could sit here and talk about

Bryan Lachapelle (09:36)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (09:41)
I don't know. I mean, it just, changes, it evolves and, and these days, my God, if security was complicated before it's a nightmare. Now, I talk once in while, I like to name drop that I was up hanging out with my friend, Robert Herjavec. if you guys don't watch, ⁓ dancing with the stars, wait, I mean what shark tank, ⁓ he's, he's been on both. you might not know who Robert Herjavec is, but he is a big dog in the world of cybersecurity up there. And in your.

Bryan Lachapelle (10:03)
Perfect.

Justin Shelley (10:11)
your neck of the woods, right? Rand, he's not, yeah, yeah. And one thing that I remember him saying is this was at least 10 years ago. This was quite a while back. And he said, ⁓ what I love about security is that it's only getting worse, not better. And so his, he knew his business. He was a no risk of going out of business for lack of things to do. And, and that

Bryan Lachapelle (10:13)
little further north, yeah, Toronto.

Yeah, and that was

10 years ago.

Justin Shelley (10:39)
That's what

I'm saying. Like I couldn't at that time. I'm like, that's kind of scary. His big thing. You know, the thing we're talking about then was IOT, internet of things. All these devices are connecting. Great. Now we've got autonomous devices that are getting in and like running applications and doing things, you know, the, agent take AI, holy hell. you know, we're, talking about firewalls, which that's a very old technology that we do still need.

But we're actually moving into an era where we have to apply the concept, whether you call it a firewall or not, because we're, we're securing the perimeter in this episode. We have to figure out where everything lives and we have to secure it. There is a type of firewall that we have to put in place to safely use AI on sensitive data. Right? I mean, in, prepping for this episode, that's one of the things that popped up a Forbes article on the firewall for AI. I'm like, what? God, I guess. Yeah. ⁓

Bryan Lachapelle (11:33)
Yeah, mean,

they don't usually call it a firewall, but it's essentially the same concept, ⁓ AI, Internet of Things, ⁓ the amount of applications people use, third-party applications, systems. ⁓ Just like, I think we talked about the thermostat or the thermometer on a fish tank once before, right? People have light switches that are Internet enabled and...

Justin Shelley (11:35)
No.

Right.

Yeah. Yeah.

Bryan Lachapelle (12:03)
⁓ pens that are internet enabled and it's like it's insane the amount of things that are connecting to the internet and people don't really take into consideration that every one of those have to be secured through a type of firewall.

Justin Shelley (12:17)
Yeah. It's messy. It's messy to say the least. ⁓ but if we dig, let's dial this back for a minute. We'll keep it simple so we can talk about a couple of things. If we, cause you mentioned it, if you're, if most of your workers or several of them, you know, if you come together in an office environment, we do still have a perimeter that we need to secure. And you know, when, when COVID hit that became a nightmare when we had this mass work from home movement. Yeah.

Bryan Lachapelle (12:45)
Right. Yeah, because

now you weren't just worried about whether or not your network was secure. You had to worry about whether your employees home networks and their kids computers and everything they're doing on their home network is also secure ⁓ or prevent those from affecting the system that your staff has via a firewall of some sort.

Justin Shelley (13:06)
Yeah, no,

because the rush was to give everybody VPN access, which is ⁓ a tunnel right through the firewall. The firewall protects the perimeter. Now we're going to take, and we're going to drill a great big hole through it so that work from home users can come into the network from home. But we don't know what's on the other end of that tunnel we just built. And that became a huge problem. So now the perimeter is extended to everybody's home and we've got to lock that down. ⁓ No, it didn't know.

Bryan Lachapelle (13:11)
Yeah.

Right? It was.

And it never went away.

Justin Shelley (13:34)
In fact, it's like, I don't know how much time you spend on Reddit, but oh my God, the, people that bitch about having to work from the office versus working from home. It's like, we, we created a monster with that one. Nobody wants to work in the office anymore. Um, and it's fine. I'm not saying, mean, listen, I will just say there's pros and cons to both, um, from both perspectives, both the employer and the employee. I get all sides of the argument and I'm not even going to take a position on it. I'm just say it's here to stay.

Bryan Lachapelle (13:48)
Yeah, I don't want to work from home.

Justin Shelley (14:02)
And the perimeter just got more complicated, more, more fuzzy. ⁓ And then you take from that, whether you're working from home or you've got field techs or, whoever needs access to the data. ⁓ We've moved most of our file shares, our file servers to SharePoint or some similar cloud service. We got to protect that, right? How do you, how do you protect, let's talk about SharePoint for a second. Brian, how do you protect SharePoint?

Bryan Lachapelle (14:29)
Well, that falls in line with the same thing with Office 365. So it's part of the Office 365 suite. So we're using an ITDR, which is essentially a monitoring system that ties into Office 365. The company we use is Huntress, and it's monitoring all of those type of activities now. There's another layer to that, of course. You have to secure each site that you're using to make sure that

Justin Shelley (14:32)
Yeah.

Bryan Lachapelle (14:55)
only the authorized users have access to the different sites and the different folders in SharePoint. ⁓ And there's always a risk of somebody sharing information outside the network, like outside. So there's a sharing ability in SharePoint, the whole concept behind it. ⁓ The initial setup of it has to be done in a way that prevents certain folders or certain ⁓ sites from being shared outside of your user base, right? ⁓

I might be missing a couple things, but I think I've covered them all.

Justin Shelley (15:27)
No,

I mean, that's, that's pretty good. I just coming back to this concept of firewalls, it's used to be back in the good old days when I was a kid, ⁓ up build school uphill both ways in the snow, whatever. it, as long as we could lock that firewall down, we really didn't have to worry about much, but now we put everything, we took everything that was in this secure network and we just threw it out there on the cloud.

Bryan Lachapelle (15:43)
Yeah.

Justin Shelley (15:55)
And we trust somebody that we do trust. I haven't, how many times have you heard Brian, somebody say, we moved to the cloud. I mean, this is also aging it. We have to cloud. It's fine. It's safe. It's secure. It's whatever. Poor shit. ⁓

Bryan Lachapelle (16:07)
Yeah,

now you're just, it's just somebody else's, another computer that somebody else manages that you don't directly manage yourself anymore.

Justin Shelley (16:12)
that

is by design open to anybody from anywhere in the world. Like just think about that for a second. Yeah, that is, but that's what it's designed to do is to allow everybody with the right access, know, and that becomes a trick. ⁓ I don't know. ⁓ So we've got, we've, we've moved from this ⁓ simple network to this very fuzzy, very cloudy. We don't know where the hell things are network.

Bryan Lachapelle (16:17)
Right. Yep, by default anyway. Yeah.

Justin Shelley (16:40)
And now we have to lock that down. The other problem we've got is even if we go back to our office, that's, that's somewhat simple. wifi, let's talk about wifi for a minute. How do we secure that? How do we get people access? Do we give guests access to the wifi? And if we do, what does that open us up to? I think Brian, you had a whole, you, every time you, somebody leaves your company, you piss off the rest of the crew, right?

Bryan Lachapelle (17:05)
We're about to experience it at four o'clock. So thankfully, I'm not ⁓ on Wi-Fi. ⁓ But one of our team members is leaving, and we love her very much. She's a great employee. ⁓ But when they leave, we change our Wi-Fi password across the environment, ⁓ which means that everybody gets, when they come in the next day, they have new passwords. And so we hear the grumble. And it's funny because the message went out, you know, we're going to be changing the password to the Wi-Fi. you hear a collective sigh throughout the office, like, ⁓ no.

Justin Shelley (17:21)
Yeah.

Bryan Lachapelle (17:34)
Now we have segmented our Wi-Fi. We have staff Wi-Fi. We have guest Wi-Fi. We have a device Wi-Fi. all the devices in the office are on their own separate Wi-Fi that only has access to the internet. So there's segmentation happening. So we don't have to walk around changing passwords on all our TVs or anything. ⁓ And most people who are on the phones, they'll have a Wi-Fi that only has internet access. So I can't remember if they're going to change that one too, probably. ⁓ But yeah, it's a pain in the butt.

Justin Shelley (17:44)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Bryan Lachapelle (18:03)
It's just one more layer that we've to consider whenever we're terminating an employee or when somebody leaves willingly.

Justin Shelley (18:10)
Yeah. And how many times have you seen guest wifi networks that aren't really guest networks? You know what I mean by that? It's called guest, but it's the same thing. It just has a different name.

Bryan Lachapelle (18:20)
Yeah, where it's the same

network. Yeah, almost all the time ⁓ whenever we're auditing ⁓ smaller clients. The larger clients tend to have someone like us already in place, and usually those ones are segmented properly, but not always.

Justin Shelley (18:39)
Yeah.

All right, ⁓ so that's an area we've got to watch. Let's see, what else do we need to talk about here? Visibility. ⁓ I mean, really, guess, I don't know, before I, because I'm going to kind of move to conclusion. And this is just one of those topics that I don't have a clear cut, here's how to fix the problem. ⁓ And so,

Bryan Lachapelle (19:08)
Right.

Justin Shelley (19:10)
I'm gonna kind of give an answer to that, but I want you to just conclude first. I'll conclude with mine. And then I think we're gonna call it good for the week.

Bryan Lachapelle (19:20)
So before I conclude, one of the things that I think is the most critical of all of this is identification, knowing what you have and where it lives. So list out every single cloud-based application you have, list out every single ⁓ device on your local network. And what I mean, every device, I mean, like literally everything. If you have a thermostat that runs off of a Wi-Fi or somebody has an iPad,

that connects to everything that's connected to the network, every cloud service you use, knowing that it exists in the first place is key number one. And then we can talk about how we're going to protect each one of those separately. A lot of things today have the ability to do ⁓ single sign on, which means if you're signed into Office 365, you're automatically signing into all the other applications, or you could easily sign into all the other applications, which makes it a lot easier if you do have that, to disable.

Justin Shelley (19:57)
Yeah.

Bryan Lachapelle (20:17)
somebody's Office 365, which gets rid of their access to everything else they use. So, identifying what you have is, in my opinion, the first and foremost thing you have to do. Then you can talk about how you're gonna secure it with a firewall and or whatever the equivalent is in that realm, right? Whether it's QuickBooks Online or Office 365 or Dropbox or whatever tools you're using.

Justin Shelley (20:38)
Yeah. And so you, you, you nailed it. I was kind of hoping you would we're on the exact same page and really this comes back to our episode that we did on protecting our data. ⁓ we, really were talking about data backup, but it's the same thing. So we have to protect it from accidental loss. We also have to protect it from, ⁓ outside, you know, unintended access. ⁓ they're there. You can go through the same process of identifying what, what you have. And the way I do it is I go through.

⁓ by, by business function. And I'll just sit down with a client and I'll say, how do you advertise? know, when you get a lead, how do you work them from lead to all the way to writing their first check to you? What does that process look like? And what is every system that it touches throughout? And they're like, okay, now how do you deliver the service? Let's talk about, you know, everything that happens along that path. And then how do you bill for it? How do you hire and fire? How do you, know, what other administrative functions do you have in the business? And we just go through every single function and talk about the software that's used.

where it stores the data, how do you back up the data? And then really all we have to do is add one more column to this is how do you protect it from intrusion? So very similar process, but is in identifying it, but it is a very different process in how, are we protecting it from? We're either protecting it from data loss or protecting it from unintended data access. So.

Bryan Lachapelle (21:45)
Right.

Right.

Yeah,

and there's one more layer to all of that. And I don't know if we have another episode that will be dedicated to it. And that is employees and or entire departments of your organization signing up for services that nobody else knows about, right? So shadow IT. So like maybe the boss in the HR department was like, hey, we need to store files. So let's sign up for a Dropbox account. Meanwhile, like IT has an authorized Dropbox and Dropbox isn't something they use because they use SharePoint, right?

Justin Shelley (22:16)
Shadow. Yeah.

Bryan Lachapelle (22:31)
now you don't even know that this thing exists. So you also have to have a firewall of some sort that is monitoring your systems for software and access to cloud services that are unauthorized because those are also a way that people can sneak data off the network. And you wouldn't even know about it, right? Maybe I'm using a personal Dropbox account, copy the entire contents of the SharePoint, drop it in the Dropbox account. It's all flowing through my computer. And now I've just

Justin Shelley (22:43)
Yeah.

Bryan Lachapelle (23:00)
dumped everything the company owns, all the intellectual property into a private drop box. Your staff could be doing this today and you wouldn't know. So that is also part of this mix.

Justin Shelley (23:11)
Yeah. mean, it's interesting timing. And also I've said before, this is why I do this podcast because it like, keeps me sharp. keeps me up on not just what's going on there out there in the world, but what is it that I need to be doing to protecting myself and my clients? And I'm currently rewriting my entire onboarding procedure for new clients. And, you know, I went from onboarding taking a few days, maybe you got you a stall agent and you, push some software and you know,

push a few buttons and you're done to my onboarding process right now is 90 days, 90 days of relatively intense work. Most of it is what we're talking about right here. It's understanding what lives where and how we're going to protect it. And while that used to be a pretty simple process, my God, it is not anymore. So let's bring this down to ⁓ say key takeaways, but I want to say, you know, the, we're talking to business owners. That is the intention of this podcast.

And I have to leave every episode with, you know, giving them the message of you've got this situation that is chaos. How do you rein it in? How do you do something simple? How do you make sure that you're covered and you're protected? And what I will say right now, ⁓ usually I let everybody else go first. I'm going first today on key takeaways, Mr. And Mrs. Business owner. What you've got to do is you got to look your IT person and it's whether it's in-house or whether it's outsourced, it's an MSP. I don't care, but you sit down with them across the table and you look them in the eye and you say,

Show me the process that you use right now to know where everything lives, how you're protecting it. Show me your process. And nine times out of 10, and I think that's being generous, you're going to get there in the headlights. And then you know you've got a problem and you better get it fixed. All right. That's my takeaway, Brian. What do you got?

Bryan Lachapelle (24:52)
Yep, absolutely.

⁓

I this is a tough one because my takeaway normally would be based on what we've talked about. But I think in this case here, my takeaway is really just that first piece that we've talked about both when we were talking about data and ⁓ the perimeter, is know what you have. You literally have to know what you have. ⁓ And if you don't,

then you're in trouble. you have to, you know, it'd be like, I don't even know how to come up with another analogy that would be similar to what we're experiencing with a lot of the companies we onboard, because you're absolutely right. ⁓ They half the time, you know, they're reporting us, say we've got a server and 10 computers and you get in there and they got 30 computers and, you know, five servers. Like they don't even know what they have. know, granted, I'm not laughing at them. I'm laughing at the situation because they shouldn't have to know.

in the grand scheme of things, but because it's security and because it is the lifeblood of your organization, you really ought to know. And so I guess my key takeaway would be know what you have and then, yeah, make sure you have a plan to protect it.

Justin Shelley (26:08)
Yeah, it's right in. You know, I talk a lot about frameworks and I was trying to pull it up so I could seem a little bit smarter, but the CIS Center for Internet Security is one of the frameworks that we apply absent an industry or a government mandated framework, right? So you've got HIPAA, you've got CMMC, you've got NIST, you've got all these frameworks. Absent the requirement of that, we default to CIS. And it's right there in the very beginning is

inventory your software, inventory, your hardware, inventory, your users. It is exactly what you just said. Know what you have. You can't protect it if you don't know what you have. So, ⁓ I think that's a great place to wrap this up. And, but I'm just going to say it's no piece of cake. And so don't, don't add this. will say, don't add this as one more thing you're trying to do as the owner or the CEO of a business, but do you have enough visibility that you can confidently say that it's, it's being handled. Don't just write a check and assume.

Bryan Lachapelle (26:40)
That's the first thing. Yep, know what you have.

No.

Justin Shelley (27:05)
You've got to verify on this one. So that's my final, final thought, I guess, second final thought. ⁓ I guess we're going to go ahead and wrap up. So we'll call that the end of this week's episode of Unhacked. And as always go to the website, unhackmybusiness.com for the transcript, the audio, the video, the, the, usually we have some sort of a downloadable or an online as exam assessment you can take something like that. Resources are there. Feel free to use those. ⁓

I think that's it, Brian. And I'm, I'm stammering because usually I have like this well-scripted ending and with a broken foot and just coming off of Jamaica, I'm going to blame that. but anyways, go ahead and say your final goodbye. We'll wrap up and we'll be back next week with more.

Bryan Lachapelle (27:42)
Yeah.

Sounds good. Thank you for listening. My name is Brian Lashpaugh with B4 Networks. If you are struggling managing your computer systems and IT, reach out to us and let us be your guide and we'll help you get 1 % better every day.

Justin Shelley (28:04)
I love it. And I'm Justin. Remember, listen in, take action and keep your business unhacked. See you guys next week. Take care.